Other A lot of new companies, what's up with the undercutting?

[sjetrider]

If it were only that simple!
A business has to be creative in this day and time. Especially a very specialized business like this one. There have been ALOT of new companies over the last year that offer specials and deals on certain items to gain new customers. But thats typical in ANY business. I do the same in the stainless steel business. New customer gets a great knock the door down price the first time around. Then I inch the price up until its a reasonable margin. Sell a new pole at near cost as a promotion and then sell a pole pad , ride plate, footholds, steering system at MSRP when they come back because they see your real and ship fast and respond to questions and so forth. The ones who survive are the ones with the service and knowledge to do so. The killer price was simply a method of getting you to make the first purchase. Keeping them as a customer is the real skill. The ones that sell everything cheap will fade out due to service or lack of margin at the end of the day.
So buying cheap can be mutually benificial in the end.

 

[XJCrawler]

I must be clueless, can some please point me in the direction of all these newbie sellers, selling things rediculously cheap

 

[Matt_E]

Just look for deals on DASA motors.

 

[raytherace]

Just look for deals on DASA motors.

Its a complete shortblock SS850. There is no rule from Dasa about the complete shortblock if the dealer buy only the top end. He have to carry the case, crank an labor. Its not again dealer rule because he built it himself. If we compare Thrust to nuklear, there is a huge difference in price. Its like comparing a BOB to a superfreak, why there is more than 2k in difference in price ??? If Chris is talking about those Dasa deal, i dont think that these new dealer will be dead in fews months, i think its the opposite, because we now see almost the same deal from fast element about the DASA SS850 shortblock. Maybe Thrust will be offering the same deal in the near future because the market is like that, we need someone to lowered the price and after all other dealer follow the same to be in the game. There is always 2 side of the dime, one who is first and make big money on it and the second one came after to stabilize the market at a fair price. This is just my opinion.

On the other side, if we take ADA Racing for example. Who sell at the retail price .....NOBODY.....is there a rule for that...yes but its only about advertising. How many time I had see Jetmaniac posting call for the best discount. Its what it is. If you dont like competition just quit businesses and find you a job !!

 

[SXIPro]

I'd love to be able to support a local dealer, but where I live there are hardly any dealers that carry parts for PWCs, and if they do most of it is for 3 seater couches. No one around here carries parts for stand ups, and if they do, it's all stock items or maintenance stuff or little crap like gaskets..although they never have an entire set of gaskets. I'd lilterally have to drive to 3 dealers to end up with one set of gaskets unless I wanted to wait for one dealer to call an order in. Plus, I am usually after performance parts for a 701, which no local guys carry.

Am I price conscious?, of course I am. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. However, if the price difference is within reason, I'll always go with the guy that has given me great service. If we are talking hundreds of dollars difference on a single order, though, I am first going to give the guy with the known good service a chance to close the gap on the price differential. If he won't budge, I may have to go with the other source.

 

[Tmart]

Its a complete shortblock SS850. There is no rule from Dasa about the complete shortblock if the dealer buy only the top end. He have to carry the case, crank an labor. Its not again dealer rule because he built it himself. If we compare Thrust to nuklear, there is a huge difference in price. Its like comparing a BOB to a superfreak, why there is more than 2k in difference in price ??? If Chris is talking about those Dasa deal, i dont think that these new dealer will be dead in fews months, i think its the opposite, because we now see almost the same deal from fast element about the DASA SS850 shortblock. Maybe Thrust will be offering the same deal in the near future because the market is like that, we need someone to lowered the price and after all other dealer follow the same to be in the game. There is always 2 side of the dime, one who is first and make big money on it and the second one came after to stabilize the market at a fair price. This is just my opinion.

On the other side, if we take ADA Racing for example. Who sell at the retail price .....NOBODY.....is there a rule for that...yes but its only about advertising. How many time I had see Jetmaniac posting call for the best discount. Its what it is. If you dont like competition just quit businesses and find you a job !!

Very well put sir.

With the economy these days, there's a lot more limited section of people that came go out and spend 5500 on a motor that somebody else, who has a good background rebuilding motors, can offer it to you for 3500. The more people ride am hulls and bigger motors, the more people are going to find a way to get their hands on better equipment and with human nature, people are going to turn to the better deal, whether some people think its right or wrong. Thats just how its going to be from now on I believe, it sucks for the big name companies that carry such good products and carry a great name for themselves, but the world is broke these days and the smaller, cheaper sellers are definitely going to benefit from this

 

[OptimaRacing]

Great point from the original poster.

With that being said, Optima has always and still maintains a full time commercial/retail business establishment, with real overhead and costs. I own and operate the business on a daily basis (I would say 9-5, but it's more like 6am-12am, Mon-Sunday, and I won't count the times when I dream about what needs to get done the next day). To say Optima Racing and OptimaRacing.com is my life, would be an understatement to say the least. We support the sport in every facet from sponsoring the IJSBA tour, WaveDaze freeride, Daytona Freeride and multiple riders, racers, freeriders and freestylers.

My big issue #1 is some of the "top dealers" operating from their personal homes. I would love to have the luxury and cost savings of working from my house and garage. I don't though. I pay big $$$$$$ every month to do it legitimate, but that doesn't seem to matter in this industry. To be completely honest, my event support vehicles and website cost more than what some dealers spend operating expenses do in a year. Yet still, I lose a lot of business to said "dealers".

Major issue # 2 is, some of these "dealers" work full time jobs elsewhere, then run their parts business as a side business. Yes, I know who these entity's are. There is no telling what more I could do to grow the business and in turn the sport, if these part timers would stick to their 9-5 and stop diluting an already feeble market.

What the typical retail customers don't understand is that when you choose to support these "dealers" that are not in the business full time, you are taking sales from companies that are legitimate and plan to remain in the industry for years to come in a capacity to help grow the support or at the very least, MAINTAIN it's current level.


I have said my piece, or at least an abbreviated, edited portion of it. I have been self employed for the majority of my adult life, in multiple industries and know that the part timers, hackers, poachers and wanna-bes will be out of the game in due time (albeit replaced by new "entrepreneurs"). It's really not about the ability to be successful or an individuals motivation, it's about who can withstand the attrition and sacrifice that comes along with being in business, during the bad times.

Mike@OptimaRacing.com

 

[Matt_E]

Very well said.

 

[raytherace]

I understand your point at 100% Mike and it will be the attitude that I will have when, if happen, i wiill live from PWC industry in the future. But you have to think about one more thing. Rome didn't get built in two days(i dont know if its the right translation). I mean who in the real life start a business with the big money the first day they decide to start ?? Maybe if your dad is rich he can give your a hand, but in my case its not the case. I have to go up the ladder step by step because im not rich. Yes I operate QJC from the garage of my house, im one of those, but you have to think that in Quebec we have a long and cold winter, that mean if i want income during the winter i have to operate something else than jet ski stuff, thing that I dont want. Market is low here what do you want me to do, to be in the debt because i have to rent a garage store front etc..I dont have the money for that now, im in this business since only one year as a passion. To rent a garage for me now would be useless because i dont do that much mecanic, I just try to convience local people that I exist. Its why I almost only do my business via facebook, because its only people who have clic on my page who see all the stuff I really have for sale.

 

[OptimaRacing]

Thanks Matt. I fully expect some incoming fire from my comments above (although everything I said is merely fact and nothing personal, just business).

I have held my tongue on this very subject for some time, at least to the public and people outside the industry but you know what. For-getta-bout-it. People need to understand the detrimental effects it has on their sport to purchase from non full time, legitimate dealers.

Furthermore, the distributors, suppliers and manufacturers need to step up their part in policing these entity's and start pulling their accounts.

All of the above also applies to professional or prominent names in our sport receiving exception to the dealer standard policies because of their position in the sport 15 years ago.

 

[Mark44]

This is starting to get entertaining.Now I know the part time parts people are not business men, who would have thought.
Suppliers should only sell full time jet ski business parts and not some guy turning parts out of his garage.

 

[raytherace]

Furthermore, the distributors, suppliers and manufacturers need to step up their part in policing these entity's and start pulling their accounts.

It could be cool for you and other business like you, as a business because you will make more money and I understand your point Mike. I really dont take it personal.

But are you agree that in business we have to go step by step(in my situation for example) ??

If i close my business, who will take the time to go 8 hours up north Quebec city(in Canada) to let people try their demo BOB ??

How do you start your business Mike ?? How old are you ??? what was your life before OR ??

Im pretty sure that your are speaking in general. Each case is different. All the manufacturers I represent know my status.

If your advice is to close QJC after that ( my opinion), i will stop posting in that thread.

 

[OptimaRacing]

I understand your point at 100% Mike and it will be the attitude that I will have when, if happen, i wiill live from PWC industry in the future. But you have to think about one more thing. Rome didn't get built in two days(i dont know if its the right translation). I mean who in the real life start a business with the big money the first day they decide to start ?? Maybe if your dad is rich he can give your a hand, but in my case its not the case. I have to go up the ladder step by step because im not rich. Yes I operate QJC from the garage of my house, im one of those, but you have to think that in Quebec we have a long and cold winter, that mean if i want income during the winter i have to operate something else than jet ski stuff, thing that I dont want. Market is low here what do you want me to do, to be in the debt because i have to rent a garage store front etc..I dont have the money for that now, im in this business since only one year as a passion. To rent a garage for me now would be useless because i dont do that much mecanic, I just try to convience local people that I exist. Its why I almost only do my business via facebook, because its only people who have clic on my page who see all the stuff I really have for sale.

Ray,

I understand what you are saying completely, but I disagree completely. Being in business is not for everyone. If you cannot afford the commercial space and subsequent expenses and operate the business full time, then you are in violation of the dealer policies set forth by the distributors. If you are obtaining product and inventory from another dealer, then they too are in violation of the terms and conditions of the dealer policies.

Those of us that are paying for the garage or shop or retail storefront, expenses, advertising, websites, marketing supplies, etc, etc, etc are doing it right. Furthermore, a select few of us go a step further and sponsor the events, races and freerides out of pocket. How is it fair or good for the sport for us to be undercut and compete against someone with an extremely lower operating expense structure.

I would love to be able to move into a 10,000 square foot facility and hire 5 people to perform sales, shipping, marketing and event coordination but I cannot right now. What I can do is spend what I can to maintain my appropriate dealer status from the suppliers and manufacturers so that I can stay in business. Most of the time, not receiving any salary so that I can reinvest the SMALL profit made from sales.

This is all nothing personal, just business. If you want to be in the business, take the necessary steps and get into the business. This might mean you have to go into debt to do so, despite your reservations of doing so.

On a more personal note, my "dad" is not rich, quite the contrary. I have been able to start and maintain Optima with capital gained from my previous business in the residential construction industry. Long hot and cold days in extreme conditions and large amounts of physical labor with more hard times and attrition and an education in work ethic and business ethics that cannot be purchased or earned at any university.

I am not complaining at all. I am fully aware how blessed I am to have learned and earned what I have in my life to allow me to take the risks I have to create the baby that is Optima Racing. It has nothing to do with "fast cash". I truly believe in this sport. Even more so, I believe it is the people in the sport and industry that make it so great.

We will be around for some time and with the help of our great customers and suppliers, we will continue to offer the industry quality products, exciting events and quality customer service!

 

[OptimaRacing]

This is starting to get entertaining.Now I know the part time parts people are not business men, who would have thought.
Suppliers should only sell full time jet ski business parts and not some guy turning parts out of his garage.

Exactly. 100%.

Do you think you should be able to call Michelin direct and buy a set tires at dealer cost because you drive a car and like to work on it in your garage? How is that going to affect the tire dealer, who employs individuals both directly and indirectly down the supply chain?

Again, not trying to take this personal, although your "entertaining" comment seemed to be venturing into that territory.

 

[SXIPro]

In my industry many of our vendors(suppliers/manufacturers) have different levels of distribution along with different pricing levels offered to distributors. Based on your annual sales volume, co-op advertising, submission of a sales/marketing plan, level of technical expertise of personnel working at each distributor..etc etc, will determine if you are a Tier 1 distributor which would afford you the lowest price point, or if you don't meet all the criteria you may be further down the ladder and get less preferential pricing. This really helps weed out the poachers that are only selling on price since they have less margin to work with to begin with.

Is there anything like that within the PWC parts world?

 

[OptimaRacing]

It could be cool for you and other business like you, as a business because you will make more money and I understand your point Mike. I really dont take it personal.

But are you agree that in business we have to go step by step(in my situation for example) ??

If i close my business, who will take the time to go 8 hours up north Quebec city(in Canada) to let people try their demo BOB ??

How do you start your business Mike ?? How old are you ??? what was your life before OR ??

Im pretty sure that your are speaking in general. Each case is different. All the manufacturers I represent know my status.

If your advice is to close QJC after that ( my opinion), i will stop posting in that thread.

Ray,

Yes, every business must start at some poing, and each business starts at different levels. However, the very first step of becoming a retail dealer of watercraft parts, you must meet the pre determined minimum qualifications to be given dealer status from the suppliers/distributors. If you cannot afford to do so yet, then you have to choose the best option for you to meet these requirements. Being an enthusiast who really, really would like to be in the business simply is not enough to qualify you as a dealer and recieve the discounted pricing structure on products to allow you to make a profit to maintain your business.

I'm not telling you to close your business or giving you advice in any form. I am just stating the rules and qualifications to become a dealer as explained to me.

 

[OptimaRacing]

I am speaking on partial speculation here, but no there is nothing that structured in the PWC parts world. There are some exceptions, but I am not at liberty to discuss further.

I feel as though I have stuck my neck out enough on this thread, but this entire topic has been a major source of agida for me for a long long time.

I have also stepped out of my otherwise neutral position, and have probably alienated some members of this forum more that I would like but there comes a time when you need to speak your mind and stand up for what you believe.

One more time, nothing personal, just business. If anyone wants to email or call me to discuss further, feel free. Both dealers, customers or anyone else in our out of the industry. Communication is never a bad thing.

Mike@OptimaRacing.com

 

[raytherace]

I would love to be able to move into a 10,000 square foot facility and hire 5 people to perform sales, shipping, marketing and event coordination but I cannot right now.

I would love to have a storefront, big garage and big budget to start my business, but I cant right now me too.

 

[raytherace]

I have to take all the money I earned from my real job and invest it all in QJC to do something. I work 40hours a week + another 30hours by the night and week-end to give people service and advice around QJC. Like I ever said to Steve-UK, sometime I almost stop eating to buy part, because I have a target and i will do everything to reach it. Nobody can stop me. But in all that I think I respect all avertising pricing. I dont really post on the stuff for sale section compare to all other dealer, because IMO, the X is more for the USA customers. If I can help someone who contact me via pm, because im posting here every days, I will.

 

[raytherace]

One more time, nothing personal, just business.

100% with you on that !