Freestyle Ada head not sealing

[Seas2699]

there was another small tiny batch of ADA heads / domes where the groove for the O ring had been machined too big, do a close visual inspection and make sure the O rings sit nice and snug and don't have play...

The girdle bolts we tighten to 35 , that is not recommend specs from ADA but instructions from some engine builders thus some of these head had been known to improperly seal with 25 ...actual head screws stay with ada recommended specs... ( Yamaha )

The oring where the dome meets the head seems to be very loose in the groove. I’m thinking that this may give the domes just enough play to pop an oring. Would getting a larger oring be a similar solution as shimming the domes?


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[orangefinger]

o ring and head gaps / size is ok , but u are correct the O ring of the domes should sit in middle of sleeve .....looks like that might be your culprit

what numbers are on Domes ?
Did u try increasing girdle torque ?
Did check for any of the Girdle studs loose ?
Are the nuts enclosed on top ?
and is there a washer for the girdle studs for under the nuts ?

 

[Storbeck]

I would pull the cylinder off, bolt head to cylinder, look from the bottom to check if the domes/o-rings are sitting on there correctly.

I agree it kind of looks like the domes are not sitting square on the top of the cylinders.

 

[Storbeck]

Also, are you saying that water is coming out of the motor between the head and cylinder, and also you have the running issue? So like you really have two separate problems and you're speculating that the running issue is water leaking into the cylinder?

Water leaking out of the motor externally wouldn't necessarily cause a running issue.

 

[Storbeck]

Looks like those are some sort of thread insert?

With how close the outer o-ring on the head is to the bolt holes, I bet the o-ring is overlapping that thread insert and leaking.

Also is the thread insert above flush with the surface of the top of the cylinder? It looks like there might be witness marks on the head where those inserts are touching it. The silver ring around those bolt holes.

 

[Harbor]

Does this hole have threads ?

 

[Seas2699]

Looks like those are some sort of thread insert?

With how close the outer o-ring on the head is to the bolt holes, I bet the o-ring is overlapping that thread insert and leaking.

Also is the thread insert above flush with the surface of the top of the cylinder? It looks like there might be witness marks on the head where those inserts are touching it. The silver ring around those bolt holes.




View attachment 360795
View attachment 360796

The inserts are flush. Those marks are from the previous owner trying to put a helicoil in without removing the head. He tapped all the way through the head. Stupidest thing I’ve seen.


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[Seas2699]

Does this hole have threads ?

Yes it has a time sert. Not in the picture. All the threads have been replaced and torque down good.


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[Seas2699]

o ring and head gaps / size is ok , but u are correct the O ring of the domes should sit in middle of sleeve .....looks like that might be your culprit

what numbers are on Domes ?
Did u try increasing girdle torque ?
Did check for any of the Girdle studs loose ?
Are the nuts enclosed on top ?
and is there a washer for the girdle studs for under the nuts ?

I will have to look for the number
Haven’t put the head back on to increase the torque yet.
Nuts are enclosed
Yes there is a washer

How would you be able to center the domes on the sleeves?


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[Seas2699]

Also, are you saying that water is coming out of the motor between the head and cylinder, and also you have the running issue? So like you really have two separate problems and you're speculating that the running issue is water leaking into the cylinder?

Water leaking out of the motor externally wouldn't necessarily cause a running issue.

I think the o ring that seals the dome to the sleeve is popping which is cause the pressure to push water out and pop the outer o ring
There is minor water ingestion


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[Seas2699]

o ring and head gaps / size is ok , but u are correct the O ring of the domes should sit in middle of sleeve .....looks like that might be your culprit

what numbers are on Domes ?
Did u try increasing girdle torque ?
Did check for any of the Girdle studs loose ?
Are the nuts enclosed on top ?
and is there a washer for the girdle studs for under the nuts ?

Number say SD9542


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[Harbor]

That outer water jecket grove fir the water jacket oring is hella big.. I don't remember seeing any like that. Usually it's not much wider than the oring of at all.

Also if you pull 3 of those studs you can use a honing stone/knif sharpimg block stone with some light oil. With rags in bore and very light pressure go in a figure 8 pattern on the deck and see where you may have high and low spots..

I did mine like this when my sleeves drop some.. wanted to wait to correctly deck it at the over haul..

Also you can put your dome on top the sleeve with no compression oring installed.. Then move the dome out in all directions and see how the top of the deck feels over each sleeve, if it feels like it's bowl shaped or the top of a hill. Mine was bowl shaped with sleeve lower than outer cylinder perimeter, also mine was a compression oring leak water leak not the water jacket leak... I used the hone stone to knock it flat. Might help you gain some insight, it did for me..
harbor freight sells the stone too

 

[Vortex]

I've got 2 ada girdle heads and each one uses a different o ring size for the outer sealing. I think you might have the wrong o rings

 

[Seas2699]

I've got 2 ada girdle heads and each one uses a different o ring size for the outer sealing. I think you might have the wrong o rings

Could be possible
I just ordered the ADA super bore o ring kit off there website so I’m not sure
I’m going to try and get some orings that fit better tomorrow. Hopefully if the oring up top is a little thicker and fits properly then it will seal right.
I’m not sure about the alignment of the domes on the sleeves. I’ll have to put a colored ink or something on the oring and then see where it sits on the sleeves. If it’s not aligning right then I’m not sure where to go from there.


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[Seas2699]

That outer water jecket grove fir the water jacket oring is hella big.. I don't remember seeing any like that. Usually it's not much wider than the oring of at all.

Also if you pull 3 of those studs you can use a honing stone/knif sharpimg block stone with some light oil. With rags in bore and very light pressure go in a figure 8 pattern on the deck and see where you may have high and low spots..

I did mine like this when my sleeves drop some.. wanted to wait to correctly deck it at the over haul..

Also you can put your dome on top the sleeve with no compression oring installed.. Then move the dome out in all directions and see how the top of the deck feels over each sleeve, if it feels like it's bowl shaped or the top of a hill. Mine was bowl shaped with sleeve lower than outer cylinder perimeter, also mine was a compression oring leak water leak not the water jacket leak... I used the hone stone to knock it flat. Might help you gain some insight, it did for me..
harbor freight sells the stone too

I’m not sure if I can really Hone the top of the sleeves as they have a certain angle to meet the domes correctly. I will check the head and cylinders to make sure there aren’t any low spots or anything else.


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[Vortex]

Just from the picture I saw it looks like you have the standard replacement not the 093 o ring, I could be way off on this just a hunch

 

[Seas2699]

Just from the picture I saw it looks like you have the standard replacement not the 093 o ring, I could be way off on this just a hunch

Let’s hope it’s that and a better fitting oring fixes my issue


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[Harbor]

I’m not sure if I can really Hone the top of the sleeves as they have a certain angle to meet the domes correctly. I will check the head and cylinders to make sure there aren’t any low spots or anything else.


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Iam not sure I follow you on this "certain angle" idea. Are you saying you think the deck is surfaced to different heights, sleeves are one height and cylinder is another?

I used a straight edge and feel gauge to measure my decks flatness, I found sleeve drop of .002. . I used the dome as I mentioned and verified the deck was bowl shaped And low over the sleeves. These 2 methods revealed what was wrong with my deck with engine in the boat.

I used the stone to hone the deck flat and was all good. For the last 2 years, Every time I change orings, I honed and cleaned the deck with the stone, until over haul time.

 

[Seas2699]

Iam not sure I follow you on this "certain angle" idea. Are you saying you think the deck is surfaced to different heights, sleeves are one height and cylinder is another?

I used a straight edge and feel gauge to measure my decks flatness, I found sleeve drop of .002. . I used the dome as I mentioned and verified the deck was bowl shaped And low over the sleeves. These 2 methods revealed what was wrong with my deck with engine in the boat.

I used the stone to hone the deck flat and was all good. For the last 2 years, Every time I change orings, I honed and cleaned the deck with the stone, until over haul time.

View attachment 360810

I miss spoke I thought I read something about the domes needing to be cut to a certain angle on the squish band to fit the sleeves. These are the build notes from the original build that gives the squish clearance.

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[Big Kahuna]

Who is said builder?