Other ATP FLAME anf EPIC PROBLEMS

[cambo au]

is there anyone on here running a new flame ignition. Like bought in the last month it seems i am having similar problems to those with epics they have way to much starting advance
just want to see if there are others with the same problem

i have already had a dodgy hall effect sensor and it ran fine for one tank now i have this advance issue its starting to piss me off after buying all new stuff thinking i maybe should have gone with MSD TL :frown:

 

[QJS]

If it was ok and now its not, its unlikely its the ignition. Check the timing with a light, you may find the woodruff key has sheared or the stator is loose. Also you need to make sure the starting circuit is ok and not pulling the battery down too much. Have you talked to Watty? He's pretty good on this stuff.
Chris.

 

[cambo au]

yes i have talked to watty i am getting the guy who is testing stuff for you to come and check my flame is the circutry the same in flame as the epic
it has always been hard to start i have already replaced one starter thinking this was a problem but it has become worse i have also bought a new battery thinking it could be that also
how would you like me to check the start circuit? its all brand new
thanks for the reply

 

[kieran79]

I'm just about to install my flame which I just got last month and I'm thinking I shouldn't ?

 

[QJS]

No The circuitry is completely different. If the problem is getting worse make sure the woodruff key is intact, if it is not the flywheel could be moving slightly on the taper every time you hit the start button. By checking the start circuit I mean make sure there are no high resistance ground leads...its surprising how common this is, Mat E is had this problem I think. Also even though you have had a new battery its a good idea to check the cranking voltage, are you using an aftermarket starter?
Chris.

 

[Pablo]

I had a stator plate come loose and change my timing several degrees from where I set it. I've also had a MSD flywheel come loose and become gouged on the woodruff key...changing the timing and making me think the brain was bad. Super rough starting and some backfiring.

 

[Aircraftsalz]

I had this same problem with my flame on the first ride. No big deal, it's not the Flame like Chris said. Take a volt meter and have someone hold it on the battery, hit the starter a few times and watch how low the voltage drops. If your getting near 10 volts you have a problem. (battery, starter, ground or positive cable)

Like I said my first ride had the same problem, replaced battery cable on the ground. No problems at all.

I'm running 220 compression, 275 cca battery with my Flame, I get 10-15 gallons of surf riding and don't even worry about the battery, etc.

Big thing with these Flames-Epics is voltage!

My battery starts out with 13.4-13.6 volts fully charged, I also run a agm battery & only charge it with a 1 amp timed charge. I have a chart with voltage verse time to charge if you need it lmk.

Hope that was some help. Don't give up, IMO these are much better than msd tl.

 

[Pablo]

Don't go back to MSD. They're too finicky for me. The power is great but the reliability is low. ATP is a hundred times better. I switched from running a MSD TL and now run the EPIC and luv it. I've had a small problem with a low voltage leak somewhere. If I let it set for more than 6 or 7 days my battery gets weak. Other than figuring out that little tidbit it's been without incident. I have run the Jetworks gel batt and now run a new DEKA and both do the job for me.

 

[Aircraftsalz]

Don't go back to MSD. They're too finicky for me. The power is great but the reliability is low. ATP is a hundred times better. I switched from running a MSD TL and now run the EPIC and luv it. I've had a small problem with a low voltage leak somewhere. If I let it set for more than 6 or 7 days my battery gets weak. Other than figuring out that little tidbit it's been without incident. I have run the Jetworks gel batt and now run a new DEKA and both do the job for me.

Do you have the new Flash? Chris fixed this problem..... If not just leave your lanyard plugged in... Fred found out the unit stays on when the lanyard was unplugged which over 1-2 weeks kills the battery, but will go to sleep if the unit is left plugged in (Lanyard plugged in). Chris came up with a replash that corrected this problem

 

[masterblaster]

josh,im running a agm deka with my msd tl in one ski,I usually charge it with a 10 amp smart charger that reduces voltage as it tops off,why are you using a 1 amp? any advantage to that?

I run a epic in my other ski and there is no comparison,with a similiar motor the msd tl is way more crisp,smooth and revs out faster. I built a dry box for the brain,relay and coils and it was a few yr old unit to start with. It has been flawless with alot of hours put on it this summer,imho the key is to have the oem msd coils all in the dry box with no wiring outside the box other than the power and ground.

 

[Matt_E]

I run a epic in my other ski and there is no comparison,with a similiar motor the msd tl is way more crisp,smooth and revs out faster.

The comparison being made was between MSD TL and ATP FLAME, not EPIC. Apples to Apples.

 

[cambo au]

yes it is a oem starter and both batterys have been load tested and have plenty of cranking amps
i will pull the front cover and check the key and stator

 

[Matt_E]

Have you measured voltage while cranking?

 

[masterblaster]

The comparison being made was between MSD TL and ATP FLAME, not EPIC. Apples to Apples.

epic is setup with a tbm,so its pretty close to the flame fw weight

 

[cambo au]

Have you measured voltage while cranking?

the load tester at my local shop tests the cranking amps under load so no i havnt but it has been tested i will also check it in the ski

 

[AtomicPunk]

josh,im running a agm deka with my msd tl in one ski,I usually charge it with a 10 amp smart charger that reduces voltage as it tops off,why are you using a 1 amp? any advantage to that?

There is no advantage to charging @ 1 amp. AGM batteries typically charge better at higher amps. This breaks up sulfur crystals that form on the lead plates better than low amp charging.
BUT, Josh IS doing the right thing by using a chart to determine the how long to charge at 1 amp, many people just plug in 1 amp chargers and leave them on. Overcharging can kill a battery as quickly as undercharging.

 

[Pablo]

Good info Josh. Thx. I need to start doing that. I don't have the new flash. I cheaped out and didn't get the hardware or software for reprogramming my curves. Art set me up with mine and I've left it alone.

Do you have the new Flash? Chris fixed this problem..... If not just leave your lanyard plugged in... Fred found out the unit stays on when the lanyard was unplugged which over 1-2 weeks kills the battery, but will go to sleep if the unit is left plugged in (Lanyard plugged in). Chris came up with a replash that corrected this problem

 

[Pablo]

Josh,

You got any pics of your Flame ignition? I forgot to try and take a look at it when you guys were in Macon. How was the setup process for it?

I had this same problem with my flame on the first ride. No big deal, it's not the Flame like Chris said. Take a volt meter and have someone hold it on the battery, hit the starter a few times and watch how low the voltage drops. If your getting near 10 volts you have a problem. (battery, starter, ground or positive cable)

Like I said my first ride had the same problem, replaced battery cable on the ground. No problems at all.

I'm running 220 compression, 275 cca battery with my Flame, I get 10-15 gallons of surf riding and don't even worry about the battery, etc.

Big thing with these Flames-Epics is voltage!

My battery starts out with 13.4-13.6 volts fully charged, I also run a agm battery & only charge it with a 1 amp timed charge. I have a chart with voltage verse time to charge if you need it lmk.

Hope that was some help. Don't give up, IMO these are much better than msd tl.

 

[Matt_E]

the load tester at my local shop tests the cranking amps under load so no i havnt but it has been tested i will also check it in the ski

You need to do this in the ski, while you're trying to start. Anything else is pointless.
I chased my tail for months on my system, and I had two good batteries and an OEM starter.
The OEM starter was worn out and cables were corroded.

 

[Big Kahuna]

yes i have talked to watty i am getting the guy who is testing stuff for you to come and check my flame is the circutry the same in flame as the epic
it has always been hard to start i have already replaced one starter thinking this was a problem but it has become worse i have also bought a new battery thinking it could be that also
how would you like me to check the start circuit? its all brand new
thanks for the reply

IF you having cranking issues, hard to actually turn the motor over, that is a battery, cable or starter issue, not an ignition issue.