B-pipe cooling, routing water lines

[2lick]

Sorry to throw this question up but...

This weekend I was just thinking I need to ask how the heck do I setup all the cooling lines in mine. So thanks this thread is perfect.

I have a Protec Mach 1 Exhaust on my motor now I will be keeping it all year and maybe a B pipe next year. I have no experience or understanding on how all this cooling works so this thread really helped.

So my question is can I run any of these same setups presented on my Mach 1 exhaust? If so which?

If any one has experience with my pipe please chime in I really apreciate the help!!!

Thanks-NICK

 

[SuperJETT]

I think one thing you're overlooking is to keep both cylinders the same temp, you need the exact same setup coming out of both - meaning if the front outlet goes to a restrictor then overboard, the rear needs the same restriction. Just going by what Pro-tec/FP recommend and using a 4mm bypass is not going to give you the same restriction as having a 4mm restrictor before a bypass because you have more flow from the water injection plus the bypass to the flow control valve. The rear cylinder would have more flow and be cooler in that setup.

Also, I'm not sure of the purpose of preheating the water before the headpipe?

Did a little more reading on the subject from various sources. Went through installation info for the b-pipe, dual cooling install and bypass instructions from protec and this is what I think is one of the best set ups b/c (IMO):

-If a line gets clogged both the cylinders and head pipe still get water from 1 line and it should easily keep them cool enough.
-Warms the water before it hits head pipe
-Should provide nearly equal cooling of front and rear cylinder b/c flow out of both outlets on the head should be close to the same.
-still allows for fine tuning temp of cylinders w/ the use of restrictors and a full size pisser comming out of the head, or just by using a 6mm pisser.

All mentioned methods would work so I guess its just a matter of preference. I would not run the first couple diagrams that I put up though........mount flow control valve after bypass, we all agree on that one

**below are some pics of different parts like pissers, adjustable restrictors and different pisser sizes that act as restrictors. The diagrams illustrate routing the cooling lines.

 

[Frosty]

Also, I'm not sure of the purpose of preheating the water before the headpipe?

Me either??? sup with that... I've never heard of prewarming the water...

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

Me either??? sup with that... I've never heard of prewarming the water...

I was thinking that the cooler the exhaust temp the slower it flows, but since you are injecting water any way I guess that does not matter. 2 strokes are a whole different ball game to me. I see what you guys are saying.......I'm running forged pistons so I guess precise cylinder temp is more critical than on a factory motor with cast pistons.

I am having trouble figuring out how a single line with stock routing keeps the cylinders the same temp? Does it? If a single line is more than enough water to cool both the cylinders and head pipe is this an issue that is not only critical in the routing of the line on the b-pipe but the factory exhaust system as well? My train of though might be off on this subject but if the fitting on the head is on the far side then won't there be a temperature gradient in the stock configuration? Or does having only one line going out avoid this problem? :banghead:

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

I read an article about the b-pipe and how you tune it via water injection changing the exhaust temp = changing the sonic wave within the pipe - which has the same effect as changing the length of the pipe :thinking:

I trust you guys. You have allot more experience tuning and tweaking these exhaust systems than I have. :hail: Doesn't mean I have to understand it :biggrin:

 

[SuperJETT]

I read an article about the b-pipe and how you tune it via water injection changing the exhaust temp = changing the sonic wave within the pipe - which has the same effect as changing the length of the pipe :thinking:

Look at it this way, you can inject X amount of Y temperature water to get Z "length" pipe, or A amount of B temperature water to get the same "length", so you just vary the amount of water using the adjuster screws to get the most bottom/mid/top dependent on water temp/pressure.

Something else to think about, you want the pressure to build up in the pipe fast so the injection works quickly, so you want the smallest volume possible (less to pressurize) plus you want the highest pressure possible so you use a restrictor coming out of the headpipe also.

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

Something else to think about, you want the pressure to build up in the pipe fast so the injection works quickly, so you want the smallest volume possible (less to pressurize) plus you want the highest pressure possible so you use a restrictor coming out of the headpipe also.

Well.........thats a horse of a different color.....why did'nt you just tell me that to begin with at: That totally makes sense and is reason enough to run a single line the the head pipe. I mean I knew all that stuff......you know I just wanted to have a long drawn out discussion for demonstration purposes :bs2:

 

[SuperJETT]

Well.........thats a horse of a different color.....why did'nt you just tell me that to begin with at: That totally makes sense and is reason enough to run a single line the the head pipe. I mean I knew all that stuff......you know I just wanted to have a long drawn out discussion for demonstration purposes :bs2:

We're going to have a fun ride down to Lanier! We better bring a dry erase board so we can draw pictures!

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

no need....... I already made us a map on Microsoft Paint :biggrin: Its simple we go in a straight line and it saves time and gas

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

Can we agree on this one? 6mm pisser on cylinder cooling circuit, 4mm pisser on head pipe circuit. Just wanted to throw out anouther illustration. Didn't see a need for 2 pissers and two restrictors comming off the cylinder head. Mounting them inward gives them equal lengths, so that is a plus I guess. Should look pretty clean also. I think I'll start w/ this set up and if I need more restrictor I can always add them. They also make a 8mm pisser so that may be an option as well for a free flowing cooling system.

 

[SuperJETT]

That's pretty close to what I'll be doing.

Can we agree on this one? 6mm pisser on cylinder cooling circuit, 4mm pisser on head pipe circuit. Just wanted to throw out anouther illustration. Didn't see a need for 2 pissers and two restrictors comming off the cylinder head. Mounting them inward gives them equal lengths, so that is a plus I guess. Should look pretty clean also. I think I'll start w/ this set up and if I need more restrictor I can always add them.

 

[2lick]

I just want to pop in real quilk and say THANKS!!!! Between rat and jett reading this tread is like a crash course on cooling.

Awesome thead guys!!!!
This needs to go to Tech FAQ.

Thanks-NICK

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

Can you add this to the Tech section?

 

[Maine Coast]

very helpful... i have a question tho... i just bought a coffmans pipe for my 650 SX.... and its the kind that has multiple rings on it do you can cut it to change the powerband...now thats somthing i dont really wanna do...will adding a water injection unit solve this problem? if i do go with water injection, what company should i go with? is there a chioce? also if i do get water injection, should i cut teh pipe short anyways or leave it long to get the best of take-off and top end?

 

[hangtime]

I think having one line to the pipe and other to the head is not what I would do .:bigeyes:
if you get a clog you either blow up your engine or your pipe heats up and melts everything .No one runs the over heat sensor anymore so if your head line clogs up you blow up your motor and I'm not quite sure what would happen if your headpipe line got clogged but it wouldn't be good .

the bottom line is if one line is good enough to cool your motor under any circumstances than the only reason to have 2 lines is for backup incase one gets clogged .
Since I ride surf and real close to shore a lot in 1 foot of water sometimes there is a real concern with clogging and the ONLY reason I'm doing dual cooling is to have 2 lines in case one gets clogged

You should have both lines going to your manifold .
After all if 1 line is sufficient for cooling under any situation the only reason to add another line is if one gets clogged .

On another note I just got a flow control from jetworks and the illustartion says to have the straight part of the TEE going to the waterbox and the elbvow going to the pisser .I have been told by numerous peeps to have the straight part go to your pisser and the elbow go to stinger .

Is this right or not :banghead: and what do you use for washers in your setuip on the control valve .I'm running a 62 T with a b pipe and MSD enhancer

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

I
On another note I just got a flow control from jetworks and the illustartion says to have the straight part of the TEE going to the waterbox and the elbvow going to the pisser .I have been told by numerous peeps to have the straight part go to your pisser and the elbow go to stinger .

Is this right or not :banghead: and what do you use for washers in your setuip on the control valve .I'm running a 62 T with a b pipe and MSD enhancer

Just checked my Jetworks instruction sheet as well and the illustration does show this, but it is not emphasized in the text. I will send jetworks an email and ask them how it should be mounted......the lines are under pressure so I don't see why it would matter.

Although pro-tec and factory pipe reccomend a 4mm pisser on the by pass I will see what jetworks reccomends on this application.

The devil is in the details :biggrin: But the more and more I think about it I like the above set up.....it is just neat and covers all the bases, evens out the cylinders and enables you to visually check to see if the lines are clogged or not.

As far as what is the right and wrong way of doing things I think it is all a matter of preference. Whatever you see as more benificial for your type of riding just run with what works for you. I personally take my ski to the river and am never more than a few hundred yards away from my trailer. Plus I typically run up stream so if I break down I just ride the current at an angel back to the ramp.

 

[crammit442]

I think having one line to the pipe and other to the head is not what I would do .:bigeyes:
if you get a clog you either blow up your engine or your pipe heats up and melts everything .No one runs the over heat sensor anymore so if your head line clogs up you blow up your motor and I'm not quite sure what would happen if your headpipe line got clogged but it wouldn't be good .

the bottom line is if one line is good enough to cool your motor under any circumstances than the only reason to have 2 lines is for backup incase one gets clogged .
Since I ride surf and real close to shore a lot in 1 foot of water sometimes there is a real concern with clogging and the ONLY reason I'm doing dual cooling is to have 2 lines in case one gets clogged

You should have both lines going to your manifold .
After all if 1 line is sufficient for cooling under any situation the only reason to add another line is if one gets clogged .

On another note I just got a flow control from jetworks and the illustartion says to have the straight part of the TEE going to the waterbox and the elbvow going to the pisser .I have been told by numerous peeps to have the straight part go to your pisser and the elbow go to stinger .

Is this right or not :banghead: and what do you use for washers in your setuip on the control valve .I'm running a 62 T with a b pipe and MSD enhancer

This is because you are running a FC valve. It allows you build better pressure behind the valve. W/O the FC valve the pisser would come off the straight leg of the T.

Charles

 

[waxhead]

i find if you dont preheat the wate rin a factory b-pipe then the power is to short with no overrev
you can adjust the screws i know
but it still find you end up running the screws almost closed to get to the point where you want to be for good surf type hp

flat water freestyle i am not sure

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

I had it right in the first couple of illustrations :biggrin: I think I just overlooked it in the latter ones

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

i find if you dont preheat the wate rin a factory b-pipe then the power is to short with no overrev
you can adjust the screws i know
but it still find you end up running the screws almost closed to get to the point where you want to be for good surf type hp

flat water freestyle i am not sure

I knew warmer exhaust temps was a important factor............I think we just came full circle on this discussion :haha: