Did I Give Up Too Soon On Total Loss?

[Waternut]

Sorry, I meant the stock flywheel revvs up slower.
But this new motor I never rode before at all, so it was all new to me, so I didn't have a way to compare TL to no TL on it.
Know what I'm saying?

I knew what you meant and I thought about rewording that in red so it clearer but didn't. I was just trying to state that TL alone should've produced an eye opening difference. I didn't realize this was an all new engine and ignition going in at the same time.

Have you talked to MSD about this failure? A fried brain in that short amount of time says there was a manufacturing flaw to me. Surely for as expensive as a new system is, MSD would warranty it for a little while. If not, then even more reason for me to not buy a new total loss system.

 

[WaveDemon]

What's it cost?

the epic is about $330 plus shipping.

http://x-h2o.com/showthread.php?t=71363

 

[masterblaster]

the epic doesnt work with rad or jetinics or any other lite flywheel,only a lightened stocker and those suck. Its not tested with the tbm yet either,I hear some of the new tbm fw may work with the advent so maybe they will work with the epic.

the tl he was running was a old analog single pickup system,if they arent double grounded they fry easy

 

[Watty]

the epic doesnt work with rad or jetinics or any other lite flywheel,only a lightened stocker and those suck. Its not tested with the tbm yet either,I hear some of the new tbm fw may work with the advent so maybe they will work with the epic.

the tl he was running was a old analog single pickup system,if they arent double grounded they fry easy

There's nothing that says the above flywheels won't work, but I know that ATP aren't making any claims at this stage, which is quite smart I think. Also, considering it's quick and easy to install in place of a stock ignition means that the average Joe can do it.

The advantage of being able to program a timing curve makes up for the lightened flywheel to a degree considering you can lighten the stocker by 50%.

 

[Matt_E]

the epic doesnt work with rad or jetinics or any other lite flywheel

Did Chris actually say that? I was under the impression it hadn't been tested.

 

[masterblaster]

There's nothing that says the above flywheels won't work, but I know that ATP aren't making any claims at this stage, which is quite smart I think. Also, considering it's quick and easy to install in place of a stock ignition means that the average Joe can do it.

The advantage of being able to program a timing curve makes up for the lightened flywheel to a degree considering you can lighten the stocker by 50%.

I asked him and he said that they would not work,only the tbm "may" work. Neither the rad,jetenitics,old style tbm or msd lite weight fw work with the advent,and this is the same type of analog to dig converter programmable ign.I sure hope they are more reliable than the advent t3 has been.The stock flywheel can not be lightened anywhere near 50% safely,Ive weighed them from diff builders,they are all well over a full pound heavier than any mentioned above. If the epic proved reliable and worked with the above mentioned fws that I own and most of us already have,Id buy 3 of them.Someone needs to make a digital stator that would work with these fw and other charging system.

 

[Matt_E]

A digital stator?

 

[Foximus]

thats bull... if a stock flywheel works so will a rad or jetinetics or anything else. You just have to sit there with a timing light and actually see what your doing as you change your curves. A magnet is a magnet.... their field may change in shape or intensity. but it still makes the same sort of field regardless...


I believe there is absolutely no reason to run anything other than the EPIC and a aluminum flywheel now that this combo is out (assuming it actually works and doesnt crap out in 5 minutes like a vilder or advent). The only downside I see is that it doesnt have the hotter and multiple spark like an MSD does.

 

[Watty]

thats bull... if a stock flywheel works so will a rad or jetinetics or anything else. You just have to sit there with a timing light and actually see what your doing as you change your curves. A magnet is a magnet.... their field may change in shape or intensity. but it still makes the same sort of field regardless...


I believe there is absolutely no reason to run anything other than the EPIC and a aluminum flywheel now that this combo is out (assuming it actually works and doesnt crap out in 5 minutes like a vilder or advent). The only downside I see is that it doesnt have the hotter and multiple spark like an MSD does.

Hopefully Chris will chime in on this...in fear of sounding stupid, I'll let Chris explain what the deal is with the aftermarket flywheels. I learned a lot from Chris when I spoke to him a couple of days ago about this.

 

[keith t]

put the electronics in an IP68 rated plastic box, job done

 

[Braidz]

i had most bad luck, i got zapped 5000 volts fully drentched not earthd properly, blown 3 pick ups, caught on fire, cogs blew out on flywheel , all msd related . partiatly my own fault as well but all within 6 months . now it seems to be going great just dont give up and take it to somone that knows what they are trully doing.

 

[QJS]

Just to clarify, I am not saying EPIC won't work with another flywheel, just that I havn't tested it so would rather not make any claims.
Sorry for the confusion I will try to put a more detailed response up after work.
Chris.

 

[Idok]

the epic doesnt work with rad or jetinics or any other lite flywheel,only a lightened stocker and those suck. Its not tested with the tbm yet either,I hear some of the new tbm fw may work with the advent so maybe they will work with the epic.

the tl he was running was a old analog single pickup system,if they arent double grounded they fry easy

I love the one on my scream motor! I think partially thats the reason why its so smooth

 

[seatsR4toilets]

This is all great info.
But now I'm really confused. Nobody seems to agree.
I'm in theory against spending $1100 more on this ski, but $700-$800 I'd probably do.
But if I'm at $800, at that point what's another $300?
This sucks because I'm already way over budget on the ski, but at the same time I'd be a fool to leave HP and performance on the table that I've already paid for.
I wish Chucky was here to chime in, because he's probably the only one within a couple hours of my house who I think is capable of installing it and timing it correctly.

 

[Waternut]

I love the one on my scream motor! I think partially thats the reason why its so smooth

A regular stock flywheel would probably be great on a team scream engine. However, I'd be surprised if you added a stock lightened flywheel later and noticed a substantial difference.

Not picking on you particularly but what is the obsession with smooth power? If an engine has flat spots, then something was done very wrong. I personally want ALL of the power the engine has when I yank the throttle. I don't want to wait for the engine to smoothly spin up. I LOVE the light switch effect which one of the main reasons I love TL.

 

[WaveDemon]

I LOVE the light switch effect which one of the main reasons I love TL.

Really? TL is one of the last things I'd attribute to a "light switch" powerband. the timing curve would need to look more like a step.

I think of light switch power being due to carbs, porting, pipe, power valves.

 

[Idok]

A regular stock flywheel would probably be great on a team scream engine. However, I'd be surprised if you added a stock lightened flywheel later and noticed a substantial difference.

Not picking on you particularly but what is the obsession with smooth power? If an engine has flat spots, then something was done very wrong. I personally want ALL of the power the engine has when I yank the throttle. I don't want to wait for the engine to smoothly spin up. I LOVE the light switch effect which one of the main reasons I love TL.

twitchy lightswitchy power is the last you want while trying to finesse yourself down the face of a wave

for me at least..

I have Lone Octanes Xcream built SJ with the identical motor to mine, but with dual 46's + TBM fly and IMO the TBM makes the power curve much much different......his boat comes on like a switch, mine ramps smoothly


there are no flat spots in either engines powerband

 

[WaveDemon]

twitchy lightswitchy power is the last you want while trying to finesse yourself down the face of a wave

for me at least..

I have Lone Octanes Xcream built SJ with the identical motor to mine, but with dual 46's + TBM fly and IMO the TBM makes the power curve much much different......his boat comes on like a switch, mine ramps smoothly

IC, you're saying the heavier weight of the flywheel smooths out the power.

 

[Matt_E]

The flywheel is a mechanical energy storage device. The heavier it is, the more energy it will store that could otherwise go to the impeller.
It doesn't "smooth" things out, it takes power away.


Note that a heavier flywheel will release that energy back into the driveline when you let off the throttle. The ski won't "brake" quite as quickly.

 

[Jr Freestyle]

Life without total loss is life not worth living.

Gil Williams
2010

hahaha so true:arms: