Freestyle Engine blew-10 hours into it- who is @ fault?

[Balduccimoto]

I am a auto mechanic and in this industry you really have to go the extra mile with regards to customer service otherwise you will loose the customer to one of the many competitors. We have to use quality parts, because in the event of a failed part; the parts store warranties the part and we warranty the labor. The customer is happy and we lose a little labor hours. However that is minor compared to loosing a customer for life.

In a case that there is collateral damage (maybe the USA Industries alternator takes a poop and completely discharges and damages the battery) we pay for the tow, and the parts store will warranty the alternator, battery and tow. It's called standing behind the product. If the parts store won't cover any costs, then we will most likely pay out of pocket and no longer deal with the parts store. If a customer asks for a USA industries alternator, we will warn them of their lack of quality and not offer any warranty.

If I forgot to tighten a wheel and the wheel comes off and takes out the fender; we will put through insurance and we are liable for any damages with NO cost to the customer.. This is the way business should be and unfortunately it's not the case in watercraft. I learned my lesson years ago, and be extremely skeptical of who I deal with and I try to do things myself so there's only myself to blame.

Point is, if there was a 10% failure rate with WSM crankshafts. It should've been known to the customer, that option disregarded and a statement of no warranty. The builder is in a business that the customer doesn't know what they want. You're paid for your expertise.

In the builder's defense, the engine should've been sent back immediately to examine exact cause of failure. If it was a defective rod, the builder should deal with SBT and get the customer back on the water in a timely matter. That is good customer service.

 

[lanmine657]

Not to be insulting but your complaining about a sbt crank? Cheap parts are sketchy, some may last forever and some not at all, sounds like bob should have known better, you don't owe bob poop, even when a friend says ya this item is sweet, when I drop 2G's I do my research

 

[Nuklear6]

what time frame would you say they need to be replaced...if the correct bearings were used?

This is an extremely hard questions to answer in performance two strokes in general, add to it that freeride watercraft is in such constant contact with water and the question gets even more complicated. Just way too many variables, ill list a few. Is it ridden in salt water? Has it EVER been sunk? Was it sunk in salt or fresh? Did you get it running again immediately after it was sunk and heat cycle it? Any hull water intrusion at all (hood seal leak, spraying coolant line...etc?). Does the owner fog after each use? How long did the engine sit with out being used during the off season? In a perfect world id say an oem quality wrist pin bearing with 89mm pistons is easily good for 150 hours. But quality of life and care means a lot. Time unused also IN MY OPIONION takes just as much a toll on longevity as over use. the longer the bearing surfaces sit unused the more prone to corrosion and potential later failure they become. Some end users should prob have a 30 or less hour service interval on wrist pin bearings. Some will get away with much longer.

**disclaimer** I don't fog my own engines so I don't except you to, but it is a good idea. I sink my ski occasionally too (your not the only one). Even a minor water mist going through the f/a is (if you ride salt water) a corrosive liquid going through your engine and uncoated bearing surfaces do not hold up well even after a short exposure.

 

[wanderer1]

Do you know what Honda Service manual says for piston change interval on CR500? Its just a little less than 150 hours lol. On a HiPo motor I like bearings and rings at 50 hours and pistons at 100, but its been stated by more than a few that I'm nuts for such service intervals.

 

[jo5hi3]

Do you know what Honda Service manual says for piston change interval on CR500? Its just a little less than 150 hours lol. On a HiPo motor I like bearings and rings at 50 hours and pistons at 100, but its been stated by more than a few that I'm nuts for such service intervals.

i dont think you are crazy at all...bearings around 50 hours or so sounds about right... specially with big pistons... rings are one of those things that i think you will replace when they need to be...but then again if its apart for top end bearings why not slap a set of rings in it and do a quick hone...if it doesnt need a bore...

 

[jo5hi3]

This is an extremely hard questions to answer in performance two strokes in general, add to it that freeride watercraft is in such constant contact with water and the question gets even more complicated. Just way too many variables, ill list a few. Is it ridden in salt water? Has it EVER been sunk? Was it sunk in salt or fresh? Did you get it running again immediately after it was sunk and heat cycle it? Any hull water intrusion at all (hood seal leak, spraying coolant line...etc?). Does the owner fog after each use? How long did the engine sit with out being used during the off season? In a perfect world id say an oem quality wrist pin bearing with 89mm pistons is easily good for 150 hours. But quality of life and care means a lot. Time unused also IN MY OPIONION takes just as much a toll on longevity as over use. the longer the bearing surfaces sit unused the more prone to corrosion and potential later failure they become. Some end users should prob have a 30 or less hour service interval on wrist pin bearings. Some will get away with much longer.

**disclaimer** I don't fog my own engines so I don't except you to, but it is a good idea. I sink my ski occasionally too (your not the only one). Even a minor water mist going through the f/a is (if you ride salt water) a corrosive liquid going through your engine and uncoated bearing surfaces do not hold up well even after a short exposure.

awesome answer...i guess my question was very vague and left too many variables...as long as mine stays together for the season i will be happy... assembled with quality parts in hopes for a trouble free summer...

 

[Quinc]

What is the ideal maintenance between rides in fresh water? Assuming minimal water ingestion.

 

[amitchell]

What is the ideal maintenance between rides in fresh water? Assuming minimal water ingestion.

Remove water from bilge, blow out engine(don't be afraid to get it warm), top off fuel tank, fog if it will sit for a while, maybe disconnect battery and trickle charge it. Some guys spray down with WD-40 or similar but that is more for salt chuck.

 

[amitchell]

Also always use Stabil or equivalent in your fuel.

 

[Lumpy]

In my opinion unless bob has a written warranty hes sol and should be prepared for things like this with modified equipment

 

[2XLR8]

There is an old saying, " he who buys cheap buys twice"
Im trying to feel compassion here but I just can't.

Sounds like the engine builder discounted the price as did the middle man so there was little profit left over for anybody to warranty anything, both bad business practices

Even if you used a name brand Japanese rod or a glorified Taiwan rod would the rod maker cover damages like cylinders,cases,starter head ect. My guess is you would be lucky to get a free rod . I thought thats what a no fault warranty was for.

The only good thing is it was all cheap stuff so its cheap to build back up. What if your Taiwan rod takes out your 10 mm billet cylinder and heavily modified case or worse yet your billet case too.

 

[n0limits]

The only good thing is it was all cheap stuff so its cheap to build back up. What if your Taiwan rod takes out your 10 mm billet cylinder and heavily modified case or worse yet your billet case too.[/QUOTE]

Been down that road and I ate all the cost. I knew when the motor was built that there is no guarantee on catastrophic failure. The builder did not intentionally try to screw me or did anything wrong with the build. It is just one of those things when you build big motors.

 

[Kny21]

I simply sold it to Bob, as he was a local rider, for the exact same cost Remi sold it to me for(which he gave me a deal on too, so Bob also got the same great deal).

I call BS on that... if you weren't making a profit why they hell are you dipping into your pocket?

What do you guys think is a fair $ amount for me to give Bob? I just want to assure everyone is happy, and Bob gets back on the water quickly, and for as cheap as possible, and just want to be fair throughout this entire situation. As it really isn't a great situation to begin with..

Fair would have been giving Bob Remi's contact info and staying out of it and not trying to make quick buck. After all Bob is supposed to be a "friend". Even if Remi would have only given you the deal, money should still come straight from Bob.

So where's Bob and his side of this? (if there even is a Bob...)

 

[raytherace]

I call BS on that... if you weren't making a profit WHY they hell are you dipping into your pocket?

Fair would have been giving Bob Remi's contact info and staying out of it and not trying to make quick buck. After all Bob is supposed to be a "friend". Even if Remi would have only given you the deal, money should still come straight from Bob.

So where's Bob and his side of this? (if there even is a Bob...)

Im asking myself the same question, why ?

Yes there is a BOB, he pm me to know some details.

 

[steve-uk]

most shocking thing in this thread is to learn that Fiore has a friend!

 

[Scraggly]

most shocking thing in this thread is to learn that Fiore has a friend!

YES!

 

[Old_Skool]

Lesson learned..... friends don't let friends be the middleman.

 

[BlasterDisaster]

Hey just came across this and thought I'd chime in and offer my help Chris.

I bought a 61x/62t short block from you a few years ago.... You claimed it was ported by Judge. You said it ran great and was 200psi (maybe 205? it's been a while. I forget). Either way, I paid you $1770 for it. It arrived with the RIVA head clunking around in the plastic crate. After spending 5 hours stripping the blue and black overspray off the engine and machining the top surface of the head enough to hide all the scratches, dings, etc, I assembled it and found that I couldn't rotate the assembly because the piston was hitting the domes. Not sure how that was possible since you told me this setup was ran in your ski. Either way, you offered to pay Powerhouse Performance to take a look at it if I shipped it to them. Well, after spending $1770 on the engine I was broke so I sat it back in the crate and pushed it to the back of my garage. I wasn't ready to install it in my new ski anyway.

Long story short, last summer I pulled it back out of hiding and sent photos of the intake and exhaust ports to Judge... He immediately confirmed that the work was definitely not his and looked like an amateur do-it-yourself port job. Truth be known, I think he was just being kind because it looks like poop in person. I should have questioned it when I got the motor but that was my fault.

Either way, I'd love to help get you back on the water by offering this motor to you. Since it's been in my possession I have cleaned and painted it so it looks 100x better than it did when you shipped it to me. And the head, although still ugly and equipped improper domes, should be good according to you.

I'm asking $1500 shipped. It wasn't worth the $1770 I paid for it a few years ago. Truth be known, it probably isn't worth the $1500 I'm asking for it. But at least this way it can be out of my garage, out of my life, and you can sleep better at night knowing that you did right and made up for licoriceing me when I was new to the sport and took your word that what you were selling me was legit. I'd be more than happy to post pictures of the motor and paypal screenshots it if you are having trouble recalling this transaction. If it makes it easier to remember, I made 2 payments over a 2 week timeframe to pay for it... and then it took you 2-3 months to ship it if I remember right.

Hope to hear back from you! I'd love to help you out and help myself at the same time.

-Erik

 

[BlasterDisaster]

I edited a typo in my post. Didn't want anyone to think that perhaps I was editing my post to hide any facts or delete any misinformation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jetfiend]

Wow, way to revive a thread that's been buried for 8 months!