French hull discussion

chriselmore_1

high on resin
Location
san jose ca
this thread is a sad example of why a lot of company's don't post here...

a bunch of no nothing whiners that think they know everything...
I'm pretty sure everyone will agree that we all want to see more products in our market. BUT we want to see innovation. Not clearly ripping off 2-3 popular hulls. There is so much more room for new ideas and new looks. For example.... Bob, rickter, wdr rok, matrix, and lenzi to name a few. All of those guys spent countless hours designing/ testing their own products. The op obviously has some composite skills and alot of potential to make something different and his own. And if he did just that I guarantee he would draw a alot more interest. P.s. The days of the sj splash are over....
 

the WaTeRhAwK

fryin' up a/m electrics..
Location
okc
Someone finally said it!!!
BASEING a new product off something that already exsists is wrong. But totally copying an OE part and calling it your own is ok I guess?

J, if it's "wrong", then you might wanna go ahead and call out blowsion, and pretty much any other company that makes and sells aftermarket performance ski parts. :dunno:
 

the WaTeRhAwK

fryin' up a/m electrics..
Location
okc
point taken.

just saying, anyone on here that wants to complain that a hull company is wrong for duping a hull, should be complaining about yamaha making the fx-1 to look so similar to a 440 or 550, and they need to climb up x-metals' 4ss for making finger throttles with their name on them, when they look just like a blowsion lever, and pretty much any other billet throttle lever from any other company out there. :dunno:

it's pointless.
 

Waternut

Customizing addict
Location
Macon, GA
wow... and we wonder why there arent many manufacturers in our sport

give the guy a break

Here's the way I see it. One company spends countless hours and I'm sure a lot of money to develop a hull that people will like and will hold up to the abuse we put it through. That company charges $6000+ for a hull with less than $1500 in materials because they're having to pay for all the man hours and materials they burned through during development. They're probably expecting to sell less than 20 hulls so the mark up has to be pretty high to cover the development costs. Then a year later, some dude makes a direct copy of it in his free time and tries to undercut the original manufacturer by $500-$1000. The second guy has a little bit of time and money in the mold and a small investment in materials and banks 75% of the profit. How is that right? Finger throttles, ride plates, and hoods are all form over function. There is little to no R&D in those parts so I have no complaints about people making small changes there.

I don't know if you guys recall or not but one guy on here tried to copy Kenny Keepers about a year ago and sell them. The guy was overwhelmed by flaming and bashing. Now people want to support a different guy all together for doing the exact same thing on a larger scale. WTF?!

For those that keep saying we're being negative towards new products... This is not a new product and anyone who makes a direct copy of an already popular hull is not an innovator for the sport. He's a copycat jumping on the bandwagon and hoping to use someone else's hard work to make a buck. Imagine how much hulls will cost is the big hull manufacturers start patenting their designs...
 
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Dustin Mustangs

uʍop ǝpıs dn
Location
Holland, MI
I personally find it pretty damn ironic that people call out the flamers in this type of situation for scaring "manufacturers" away from this sport. If I was thinking about getting into this market, splashers duplicating my part and undercutting my prices would scare me away a lot faster than some keyboard cowboys would.
 

Polish jet pilot

4aces4aces4aces4aces4aces
Location
Warsaw, Poland
He is also preparing a flatwater hull :)

I guess he is not copying the technology so much (since most of it is in all new hulls) but rather the looks - if he is using different materials, techniques, parts - he does innovate to me.

The price difference is also significant, I guess..? (his product to rickter)
 

IceMan

Building a ski in Progress
The way I see it ......

If someone copies an A/M hull and sells it cheap... then no 1 complains.....

But if the price was the same or higher then you see everyone all over the guy!!!

I don't like copycats; however, we riders should give any manufacturer of our sport a chance to prove his products even if in fact its a copy of someone else....

I like to see more new hulls and products in the market and IMHO we should somehow support new comers and encourage them to innovate instead of copying others.....

Think back 4-5 years ago you can only get an A/M hull from Wamilton or XFT and look how much the market have evolved, grown and will continue to grow if we continue to support it...

At the end of the day .... every new or old design out there is based on either a Yamaha or Kawasaki or Polaris..... Ofcorse with better performance and cosmetics!!
 
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I think its a good idea, we need more people like this in the sport. Home-builders building their own hulls, selling to the public. Who cares if its a copy, think of how many companies coppied the superjet and sxr? why arent we ripping on trinity here?
 
I'm pretty sure everyone will agree that we all want to see more products in our market. BUT we want to see innovation. Not clearly ripping off 2-3 popular hulls. There is so much more room for new ideas and new looks. For example.... Bob, rickter, wdr rok, matrix, and lenzi to name a few. All of those guys spent countless hours designing/ testing their own products. The op obviously has some composite skills and alot of potential to make something different and his own. And if he did just that I guarantee he would draw a alot more interest. P.s. The days of the sj splash are over....


so from a couple pictures you claim to be an expert on this new hull??? It doesn't look like a Rickter to me, it looks similar but thats called innovation, not splashing parts..

I bet if we lined them up they would not look anything alike as far as true dimensions go. You don't even know the dimensions for either so your claims are ridiculous IMO...
 
from the pics the nose, pole area, hood, rails, and rocker are completely different from a Rickter, not to mention the other million things that we can't see... so, just because this guy copies the adjustable footholds he's a thief and a discredit to builders???

like I said earlier... no nothing whiners!!!!
 
you guys are assuming the hull is identical and it apparently isn't.for all we know it could very well be the best thing since slice bread.pass judgement when you personaly have riden one.but that applies to anything.
there may be some similarities but the bottom has major differences from what i gather.
there are plenty of members here making replicas or thinly disguised parts but yet no issues there.poles,brackets,mag pump etc ,etc, etc!!!so why should this manufacturer be held to a different standard?
as a side note.you will not see the real pro builders tear a guy a new one on this forum.they may think it but at least they have the respect to not show it!
 

Rickster

Matakana Menace
someone should delete all the hater whiners from this thread and give this guy a chance... just saying...

I love hating as much as the next guy, but damn... ha ha

HAHA, if they did that to every thread, the X woule no longer exist....

Azzholes and opinions abound on the interweb...

;)
 

steve-uk

Manners cost nothing
Location
Barrie - ontario
Here's the way I see it. One company spends countless hours and I'm sure a lot of money to develop a hull that people will like and will hold up to the abuse we put it through. That company charges $6000+ for a hull with less than $1500 in materials because they're having to pay for all the man hours and materials they burned through during development. They're probably expecting to sell less than 20 hulls so the mark up has to be pretty high to cover the development costs. Then a year later, some dude makes a direct copy of it in his free time and tries to undercut the original manufacturer by $500-$1000. The second guy has a little bit of time and money in the mold and a small investment in materials and banks 75% of the profit. How is that right? Finger throttles, ride plates, and hoods are all form over function. There is little to no R&D in those parts so I have no complaints about people making small changes there.

I don't know if you guys recall or not but one guy on here tried to copy Kenny Keepers about a year ago and sell them. The guy was overwhelmed by flaming and bashing. Now people want to support a different guy all together for doing the exact same thing on a larger scale. WTF?!

For those that keep saying we're being negative towards new products... This is not a new product and anyone who makes a direct copy of an already popular hull is not an innovator for the sport. He's a copycat jumping on the bandwagon and hoping to use someone else's hard work to make a buck. Imagine how much hulls will cost is the big hull manufacturers start patenting their designs...

:lame:

if the guy took a mould off a rickter fair enough.. did he?

has anyone here physically seen this ski? no

its already been shown that there are differences

if there was a copyright on the rickter or any other product, someone only has to change one thing about it to get by the copyright

a rickter/lenzi/rok hull they all look similar so they are all copies of each other?

many manufactures have made sj splashes... i have a wcf hull, its a sj splash as is a xft, wammer etc... i dont see the bash fests for them.. pretty sure they probably all started by taking a mould off of a supejet hull

i dont see 5 pages of bashing on the bob thread... which could be argued as a 300sx splash

there are many a/m parts that could qualify as copies, from ride plate, grates, steering, poles etc etc

im playing devils advocate a little here...

if you dont like it dont buy it.. simple.. seems unless someone on here has all his "buddies" on here bumping it up then it must be a copy cat and should be bashed until its banished

come on.. give this guy a break

personally i welcome people looking to give options to us, most of us have enough brain capacity to make up our own minds

mods.. you should really think about cleaning up this thread with all the post dumping
 

sjetrider

615 Freeriders are addicted to T1 madness.
this is NOT a Rickter splash IMO. Besides, why does it matter. It is not a viable option in the states if you are cost consious at all. And I have news for you RICKTER lovers, it DOES have room for improvement. Hence the new one that will be released this year. I give props to anyone that attempts to improve ANY product regardless of where the IDEA came from. Everyone starts somewhere, the ROK resembles and SXR and I would NEVER own an SXR but I own a ROK.
The SUPERFREAK resembles a SUPERJET and I dont see anyone bashing him because it looks alot like Wammers SJ Splash.
And the BOB is definately an original as is the STUNT, but they both used other hulls to start off with AGREED?
 
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