Custom/Hybrid How much would it cost to reproduce one carbon version of my hull.

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WFO Speedracer

WFO Speedracer

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tom21 said:
weeellllllllllll since I am a no talent hack I think I am a perfect candidate to post my .02 here.

did anyone stop to think where all the great hull builders of today got their extensive knowledge and expertise to build a better sj? What school did they attend that focused on standup jetski design and construction?

Yep they all have a BS in BS. there is no school, book, word of mouth, pattern, no nothin that will tell you how to make it handle, be lighter, go fast in a straight line, not pearl when droppin in, be the best at everything. its does not exist.

what is real is that someone had the desire to create. and was willing to risk money and labor to see if they could build something better. be it a straight carbon copy of a stock sj or something more drastic. Some builders have previous experience that lends partial knowledge to certain aspects of the job but in the end some of it has to just be left up to best guesses or a willingness to try it and redo it til it was better. that takes time, patience and money.

obviously some just wing and leave it at that.

Now as to the original question on the locked thread. clearly a lot of "advice" has been given. If I was to have listened to that advice I would never have attempted to build anything.

IF you want to do it, that mold can be made for about 350.00. top bottom and hood. yep! F U if you dont agree, I dont care. sure it wont be made the way it should be, but it will work for the one time you need it to. and as for all the brushes, tape, screws yada yada. that crap is cheap and can be purchased in bulk, most of it he probably already has. so no biggie.

so now you have a price on hull materials and a disposable one time(maybe one or two more) mold. hope this helps and I hope you try it.

there are a lot of build threads done by people who have no previous hull building experience. some of those rise way above the quality of a few so called "hull builders". One of my favorites is special fx's.

who knows, waternut could be the next Great Hull Builder? this could just be a test run. nobody knows what they are capable of until they try.

If nothing else maybe he post his experiences along the way and make the path that much easier for the next dreamer to try it. I think its all good. so long as he doesnt turn in a douchebag that churns out crap and rips people off of never delivers parts paid for or is another dirk, I say go for it. its your time and money to burn. and I really hope you get what you are after.

I am deadset against ripping a copy of someone else work, unless-you have significantly changed it or they are no longer in business and stand to lose business as a result.
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You sir are quite correct, many a throwaway mold has been made at this shop using, polyester resin,several layers of glass, corrugated cardboard for a core and more glass on top of that, once you saturate corrugated cardboard with resin and encase it in glass its strong as death and its damn cheap, the cardboard acts like a bunch of individual I beams holding the mold in the proper shape, some of those (throwaway)molds have been used many times to fix skis here.
 
D-Roc

D-Roc

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Tom, you sir make some good point and solid info. I can not say anything against what you speak of as it is the truth. Now, i don't know you so i ask how long you have been around jetskis. How many skis have you built, fixed, moddified. probably alot. I don't know waternut either but i have seen his thread, read many of his posts and i consider him another young gun full of piss and vinegar with a boner for jetskis. nothing wrong with that. us longtimers have seen many of them. I don't want to be an a-hole again but it will come across that way when I say take a look at his ski, his setup, his workmanship and think about how it may go. I am also a hack no doubt, i won't deny that, and my work, when i post on an internet forum is open for whatever discussion. If you like it great if you don't, challenge it. If Its none of my businsess to say not to do it, then its none of anyones business to say he should. The main reason i snapped lost it was i looked at the source and the hull for the plug and was blown away. If it was someone else who has more post counts and years active on a jetski than me, i wouldn't have given it a second thought. But he has relayed to me in PM's a perception of hull builders that i don't agree with. Aside from highroller and the 12 year old sweatshop builders who is the next youngest hull builder? how is that working out? I don't want to see anyone fail or get put in way over their head from the internet forum. I am sorry waternut for jumping on you and beating you down then kicking dirt in your mouth and throwing a few cup-a-farts at you. It was not the mature way to handle it. We BOTH have alot to learn, take your time. become a jetski veteran. I learned to crawl, walk, then run.
 
tom21

tom21

havin fun
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clearwater FL
D-Roc said:
Tom, you sir make some good point and solid info. I can not say anything against what you speak of as it is the truth. Now, i don't know you so i ask how long you have been around jetskis. How many skis have you built, fixed, moddified. probably alot. I don't know waternut either but i have seen his thread, read many of his posts and i consider him another young gun full of piss and vinegar with a boner for jetskis. nothing wrong with that. us longtimers have seen many of them. I don't want to be an a-hole again but it will come across that way when I say take a look at his ski, his setup, his workmanship and think about how it may go. I am also a hack no doubt, i won't deny that, and my work, when i post on an internet forum is open for whatever discussion. If you like it great if you don't, challenge it. If Its none of my businsess to say not to do it, then its none of anyones business to say he should. The main reason i snapped lost it was i looked at the source and the hull for the plug and was blown away. If it was someone else who has more post counts and years active on a jetski than me, i wouldn't have given it a second thought. But he has relayed to me in PM's a perception of hull builders that i don't agree with. Aside from highroller and the 12 year old sweatshop builders who is the next youngest hull builder? how is that working out? I don't want to see anyone fail or get put in way over their head from the internet forum. I am sorry waternut for jumping on you and beating you down then kicking dirt in your mouth and throwing a few cup-a-farts at you. It was not the mature way to handle it. We BOTH have alot to learn, take your time. become a jetski veteran. I learned to crawl, walk, then run.
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there is a kid a few doors down from me that has totally lost his mind and is intent on building a "tuner" car from a hyundai. the car is a pos and as he explained to me there are no aftermarket parts for hyundai. no cams no cranks no nothing. he is gonna buy a turbo and make that car a more expensive pos. my initial reaction was to tell him exactly what I have just said. But then I thought for a second and remembered when I was 20 something. there was not a damn thing you could have said to me to change my mind. so why try and wreck his dreams? doesnt matter if I talk him out of it or not, its the age. hell I still do the same things now at twice his age. And im not so sure that is a bad thing. I cant say I make my money back, I cant say its enjoyable, there probably not much I can say about anything positive except that I learn and its experience. I have a good amount of experience on a whole lot of things. Im not an expert in any by my standards but I know my way around just about everything. you gotta learn to walk before you can run. maybe for him its just a way to tinker? who are we to stand in his way? it would suck balls if somebody told me not to learn to dabble in all the stuff I have. I have 20 years of collecting experience and it comes in very handy at times. other times I regret not just sucking it up and sticking to one thing and make it a career. too late now.

I understand you wanting to save him the pain and misery, but tell me you dont understand the "hey lets take this apart and see what makes it work" thing. honestly I dont know what drives him, I just know that if its not hurting anyone and we all have made it clear that this is probably gonna be a lot of work and maybe a good amount of money and he STILL wants to do it, then I am gonna throw whatever knowledge, help, ideas even just a thumbs up at him that I can.

why kill somebodies spirit?

its easy to tear things down than to build it up. dont take the easy way. be foolish and take the hard road, its more interesting.
 
D-Roc

D-Roc

I forgot!
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well said tom. This topic has been posted before and people have said the same thing and convinced a newbie not to do it. wasn't a big deal. The stunt hull rebirth is a slap in the face imo to the industry because so many have put heart and sole into making better hulls. but he is free to do what he wants. I would not copy another man's poor work. Maybe an idea or concept and make it my own. to get where you are today you show you have experience. When someone boast of what they do for their day job that has nothing to do with jetskis it has no credit to me.(unless your a hull builder) haha. flashing diploma's vs years of wrenching on skis is so different. I came in harsh and disrespectful but posting up comments like "it will cost alot, and take alot of time" is probably not enough to stop him from doing it. What will happen to the molds after its done is another dreaded thought. I really like to see hulls built but don't want to see the market overloaded. everyone is grabbing at a price range. the stunt hull was the bad price range and it shows before the 3 got covered in nice paint. I was wrong for kickin him down in a a=hole manner. your right he is free do do what he wants, aslong as he doesn't hurt, or screw anyone over. I am a bit ol-skool and don't understand the concept of building a hull when we have the vw's-ferrari's of hulls being produced. Alot of young guys need to concentrate on keeping their skis running tip top thru their trick learning curves and should not be concerned about changing the industy. IMO of course.
 
Matt_E

Matt_E

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D-Roc said:
well said tom. This topic has been posted before and people have said the same thing and convinced a newbie not to do it. wasn't a big deal. The stunt hull rebirth is a slap in the face imo to the industry because so many have put heart and sole into making better hulls. but he is free to do what he wants. I would not copy another man's poor work. Maybe an idea or concept and make it my own. to get where you are today you show you have experience. When someone boast of what they do for their day job that has nothing to do with jetskis it has no credit to me.(unless your a hull builder) haha. flashing diploma's vs years of wrenching on skis is so different. I came in harsh and disrespectful but posting up comments like "it will cost alot, and take alot of time" is probably not enough to stop him from doing it. What will happen to the molds after its done is another dreaded thought. I really like to see hulls built but don't want to see the market overloaded. everyone is grabbing at a price range. the stunt hull was the bad price range and it shows before the 3 got covered in nice paint. I was wrong for kickin him down in a a=hole manner. your right he is free do do what he wants, aslong as he doesn't hurt, or screw anyone over. I am a bit ol-skool and don't understand the concept of building a hull when we have the vw's-ferrari's of hulls being produced. Alot of young guys need to concentrate on keeping their skis running tip top thru their trick learning curves and should not be concerned about changing the industy. IMO of course.
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Don't forget that his stunt hull is not a standard stunt. He has changed/improved quite a few things. Bottom deck shape, pole mounting, and hood.
 
D-Roc

D-Roc

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Matt_E said:
Don't forget that his stunt hull is not a standard stunt. He has changed/improved quite a few things. Bottom deck shape, pole mounting, and hood.
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how could i forget, lol. I have made a few changes to my hull over the years but will not be making a carbon copy to loose 10 lbs. THere are more than enough options for my ride skill and budget that it would not make sence to.
 
tom21

tom21

havin fun
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clearwater FL
D-Roc said:
The stunt hull rebirth is a slap in the face imo to the industry because so many have put heart and sole into making better hulls. but he is free to do what he wants. I would not copy another man's poor work. Maybe an idea or concept and make it my own. What will happen to the molds after its done is another dreaded thought. I really like to see hulls built but don't want to see the market overloaded. everyone is grabbing at a price range. the stunt hull was the bad price range and it shows before the 3 got covered in nice paint.
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I understand and agree with what you are saying. I also dread seeing certain new things being offered. especially when they are from unknown builders and priced to sell. always makes me wonder how much quality goes in if that is the price its offered at. I dont worry too much as one of two things usually make quick work of someone trying to cut into the market like that. if they make a good product it takes time and money and the effort to maintain that and keeping up with production quickly kills the enthusiasm and the product dies. had they priced the part correctly for the materials and labor then the hull will have the chance to be compared to other hulls and then it will either stand or fall on its design.


second is they are just in it for a quick buck and are eventually exposed as hacks,low quality or just dont deliver the goods. we are pretty skeptical and have little patience for this type of builder and maybe now are just a little jaded and probably scare away some potentially good tinkerers or dont pay attention to some guys unless they are backed by someone big who can vouch for them. And I get it, I am glad to see some of the creeps selling parts on here or splashing stuff get run off. I kinda lean to protecting people from being ripped off rather than let some one new in. if they are legit I hope they keep at it and stick around until its obvious they are in it for the long haul.

This is a strange little world we live in. But are we talking about a guy who modded his ski and now wants to redo all the changes he has made in a better way than it was originally built. or are we talking about a guy trying to sell a remake of a hull few if any want? Either way I dont see it having any impact on the current and future sales of any hull builders. do you?

as for the molds I think the same applies. who will want to put in the cash and effort? as was pointed out its easier and cheaper to find a running ski and be riding than to try and build one.

LOL of course that is not stopping me at all from remaking an fx1. so go figure. I have my reasons and it may not make sense to anyone but me but I refuse to pay 300 bucks for a hull with no title, hood, pole and any other parts. especially when I will have to take that hull and replace the pump, add tubbies, widen tray, install footholds, raised seal area to keep the hood in place and make the rails wider. to me I figure all that work and material is equivalent to making a plug and mold and in the end I should have a stronger and lighter hull than the one I would have to cut and mod. Can I really do it? yes. will it be better than the original- we will see. no matter what I doubt any hull builders care at all. I mean unless you have a hard on for modded fx1s this build will probably come and go like a build thread of a turf job on a squarenose. lol

I am doing it for me. because I want one. I have sold 144 pumps and trays for other fx builders and have never offered those parts. if the hull works like I want it to and someone wants one I would make another. Is that the plan? not at all. I am pretty sure that the work involved will be more than I care to do for the price someone would pay. so its a non issue.

does any of that bother you? I can hardly imagine it would. I see guys wanting built hulls for less than 3K. that is a tall order for an individual builder. the only way I see that happen is if you do it for yourself and from what I have seen, those that do it are not chomping at the bit to repeat it.

But without guys willing to just say f it! lets try some crazy chit would we have anything other than stock yamis and kawis?
 
tom21

tom21

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clearwater FL
by the way D-roc, I like this discussion we are having. I am trying to understand your position and am trying to help you understand how I see things. I dont consider my opinion to be worth anything other than just that, my opinion. I dont consider it to carry any weight for any reason. its just how I understand things.
 
B3IS

B3IS

I cant believe this is still going on. Tom21 knows what he is talking about. D-roc I am a little bit confused about your stance on this. Do you know the history of the first jet skis, or the evolution of the industry the sport ??? We need peeps no matter what their intentions are to ALWAYS be shifting shaping and changing all things in our lives to make them better dont you think ??? I know you came out agressive and that sometimes you will get kicked in stuff online by members, or get backed into a corner and try to find a way out. It will be ok I am sure.
 
McDog

McDog

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Waternut is in no way a" kid". He is an aerospace engineer with composites education. He probably knows as much as you about any aspect of a jetski. Not trying to stir up trouble just stating the facts. He likes to tinker more than he likes to spend money. He has the time to do it. Nothing wrong with that.
 
AtomicPunk

AtomicPunk

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23,000 posts I guess he was bound to eff one up eventually.


Good post though, very ironic.
 
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