holygoat
Site Supporter
- Location
- Indiana, USA
Is the sport / market declining?
- Thread starter Christian_83
- Start date
holygoat
Site Supporter
- Location
- Indiana, USA
Why not just LPW? Not within driving distance I assume but he's close.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
I didn't even think about Paul but I will give him a call for sure , no one is anywhere near within driving distance , on a bunch of this flip ski sitdown stuff I am just going to do WSM cylinder exchanges as that seems to be the cheapest and most practical option for me , however on most of my personal stuff I want my cylinder back .
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
I found a boring machine that a friend bought that is not going to use. I'm planning to buy it soon once I get set up in my new house that has a nice oversized 2 car garage with a car port out back. I have some cylinders to practice on and hope to be able to offer quick cylinder boring or nozzle boring. I've been doing machining for the last 2 years for a job so I have developed a solid understanding of it. Eventually plan to get a lathe and milling machine as well. We'll see how it works out. There's not really many local places near me that can offer something like that if any so there's opportunity there.
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HarryConnolly
Site Supporter
- Location
- West Roxbury, Boston
I wonder if this sport will turn into the Harley market. Once the 2 stroke support really slows down, parts could shoot to the moon.
When I was a kid the knuckle and panhead motors my father would build were a niche but still had market support and availability wasn’t a problem. Granted everyone was old and I can’t find guys that know what they used to know about these motors. For example, unique bolt sizes, what parts are interchangeable or quality of life case modifications for oiling. That disappeared and now a dog poop set of cases costs more than the entire bikes parts combined with labor. I wish I learned machining.
I wonder if late model 2stroke super jets will be 10k+ in 10-20 years.
Edit: I’ve honestly considered putting my own cash up on R&D for an electric stand up. Can’t believe that doesn’t exist yet. I think it would sell. At the lake I’m on people don’t own stand ups because of the noise
When I was a kid the knuckle and panhead motors my father would build were a niche but still had market support and availability wasn’t a problem. Granted everyone was old and I can’t find guys that know what they used to know about these motors. For example, unique bolt sizes, what parts are interchangeable or quality of life case modifications for oiling. That disappeared and now a dog poop set of cases costs more than the entire bikes parts combined with labor. I wish I learned machining.
I wonder if late model 2stroke super jets will be 10k+ in 10-20 years.
Edit: I’ve honestly considered putting my own cash up on R&D for an electric stand up. Can’t believe that doesn’t exist yet. I think it would sell. At the lake I’m on people don’t own stand ups because of the noise
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Old guys pay a lot for bikes and cars, boats have largely been abandoned. Used OEM cases and cylinders are still cheap although fewer of them are in good condition. New cranks are expensive but that is a must have item as far as i am concerned. I dont trust aftermarket cranks yet. Electrics are easy but have no range in boats or airplanes. You can still get plenty of parts now to last the rest of your life. Supply will follow demand.
HarryConnolly
Site Supporter
- Location
- West Roxbury, Boston
It makes me wonder, after reading on this post about someone waiting for work to get done to 951 cylinders.
What happens when the guys that know that work are gone?
It seems like the real OGs in this sport are 40-60 years old
I could for see a future where the niche knowledge is lost and things go sky high?
It’s the little things, I’ve noticed things like ovp that seem easily lost in time.
from what I understand, I’m the last operating powersports cyl boring in all of North Georgia. I stock all Yamaha twin piston sizes.
and offer 1-2 day turn around. Will do the same for you Terry, if you supply Pistons when you send cyl. Im not interested in dealing with local SeaDoo riders, so I dont offer any seadoo service, nor stock any parts for them. Give me a call, im sure we can work something out that beneficial for both of us.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Yep you are correct , I turn 61 in September , so what does happen when the guys like me are gone , my knowledge base is mostly Seadoo ,older Kawasaki with some Yamaha mixed in , I also know quite a bit about the older Polaris machines not that I want to work on them.
I have probably forgotten more about the older Seadoo two strokes especially the yellow motors than most people know , I am not working on these skis forever , I have already backed way off and geared my business toward keeping older customers skis running plus buying and selling , of course as these older customers slowly get out of riding watercraft my business has taken quite a hit , next year there will be even less repair and way more buying and selling as to stay in business I have to adapt , I have the perfect location at the lake for that type of business model to succeed .
A top end repair is about as far as I will go on machines for the general public , past that the repair costs exceed more than the machine is worth , some of my longstanding customers can get me to build a complete engine but it is a rarity. I of course will build complete motors for the flip skis as needed but that is just for me as I am the customer till the skis sell.
The irony in all of this is you have to work on the skis to be able to get deals on skis to buy and sell , time has proven this over and over to be true , I have had many people just drop off skis at my doorstep for free , all they want to keep is their trailer , you can do a lot when your buy in cost is zero..
I do have a friend - customer that I have tried to slowly bring up to speed , he mostly piddles but his knowledge is not where it needs to be yet and he is working out of his house , I am working out a deal with him to let him work at my shop at the lake and keep it open on the weekends ,this way he can sell batteries, spark plugs, lanyards , oil etc and in turn this will allow him to get all the skis out of his back yard and make his neighbors very happy.
My hope is that with my assistance here and there I can pass along enough of my knowledge that he can get by and possibly take over most of my general repair side of the business instead of just closing the doors in a few years and having all of it lost forever. Who knows at some point maybe I can rent out at least part of the shop to him and go hang out at the lake.
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
the only way to keep the sport around is to pass the knowledge and get the next generation on it so they can continue the sport otherwise it will quickly die out.
- Location
- 1 Mile High in Colorado
Not dead yet. Just missed a deal yesterday for $7500 near Denver:
2x RN SJ's
1x SN SJ
Trailer
Not too bad, one of the RN and the SN looked a bit neglected but after you've worked on these things for a while there's only so many things that can be wrong.
As FastGT says - pass the knowledge and stoke around and keep the sport alive. It's really impressive to see how into it people are here in Colorado given that we are land locked AF and water is not exactly a commodity we are in excess of.
2x RN SJ's
1x SN SJ
Trailer
Not too bad, one of the RN and the SN looked a bit neglected but after you've worked on these things for a while there's only so many things that can be wrong.
As FastGT says - pass the knowledge and stoke around and keep the sport alive. It's really impressive to see how into it people are here in Colorado given that we are land locked AF and water is not exactly a commodity we are in excess of.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Pretty much what I was thinking . I will say this it is pretty damn hard to find anyone that is teachable and actually wants to learn anymore.
Quinc
Buy a Superjet
- Location
- California
The cost and weight of the batteries is the limiting factor. But you can swap in an electric motor into any ski and give it a shot.
Electric 300sx build!
Built this over the winter with my 8 year old. He took every nut and bolt off the ski and did the fiberglass! So please give him a like and sub on youtube. :) Max Speed run: Ski ready to ride weight is 226lbs. Battery weighs 35 pounds! Once I figure out if I want to stay with sprockets or...
www.x-h2o.com
Also if you stick with an oem waterbox skis are fairly quiet.
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WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
No idea how far this actually went , I know the freeform factory hull was a bust but the head guy from Free Form ventured off into the links below, you have to give him props for sticking to his guns :
electrek.co
watercraftjournal.com
Gratis X1 Archives
electrek.co
Free Form Purchased by Electric Vehicle Maker Nikola Motor Co. - The Watercraft Journal | the best resource for JetSki, WaveRunner, and SeaDoo enthusiasts and most popular Personal WaterCraft site in the world!
So it’s been a pretty good year as far as electric jet skis go. Back in March, The Watercraft Journal formally announced the launch of Free Form Factory’s Gratis X1 – an all-electric standup. Well, just last week, the Rancho Cordova, California-based electric watercraft maker was purchased by...
watercraftjournal.com
superjetkev
x-h2o
- Location
- downriver, ontario CANADA
Jetskiing has been dying off since the early 2000s. Has F all to do with trump or who was in charge during covid. It has everything to do with the greed in this sport. The riders have priced new comers out. 1000 dollar used bpipes? Like cmon. Tell us your a greedy prick without actually saying it. I just saw a bpipe on ebay for 1400 usd. When i told the guy i got a brand new one from blowsion for 1099 he says "but its a fx1 pipe and not made anymore" lmao ok buddy. This is the sort of $hit that keeps people away. Just pure greed.
Also add the epa killed 2 strokes, economy has young people living cheque to cheque with no spare cash and new skis are more then a used truck.....yah. never coming back either. Glad i got to see the hayday and what it used to be. Now just rich people out doing backflips and 360s to get likes on tik tok.
Also add the epa killed 2 strokes, economy has young people living cheque to cheque with no spare cash and new skis are more then a used truck.....yah. never coming back either. Glad i got to see the hayday and what it used to be. Now just rich people out doing backflips and 360s to get likes on tik tok.
E350
Site Supporter
- Location
- Sacramento Delta
No idea how far this actually went , I know the freeform factory hull was a bust but the head guy from Free Form ventured off into the links below, you have to give him props for sticking to his guns :
Gratis X1 Archives
Free Form Purchased by Electric Vehicle Maker Nikola Motor Co. - The Watercraft Journal | the best resource for JetSki, WaveRunner, and SeaDoo enthusiasts and most popular Personal WaterCraft site in the world!
So it’s been a pretty good year as far as electric jet skis go. Back in March, The Watercraft Journal formally announced the launch of Free Form Factory’s Gratis X1 – an all-electric standup. Well, just last week, the Rancho Cordova, California-based electric watercraft maker was purchased by...
Don't hold your breath waiting for one:
Nikola Corporation - Wikipedia
Liquid fuel is still the best source of energy.
And where a light weight power plant is desirable, for instance in watercraft, 2-stroke engines are still the best.
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Just thinking about the electric motor version of a ski and I think the real issue is going to be corrosion protection on all electrical components... especially for you guys that play in the salt water. I read recently that most manufacturers of electric trolling motors will not honor the warranty if the motor is used in salt water. I know I have seen first hand what freshwater and just a humid environment will do to a battery bank in a sailboat, particularly lithium for some reason, and it's really surprising to see in just a few months new battery terminals and leads are covered in thick green corrosion. I used to work on sailboat motors and drives, in one summer even with a spray on anti corrosion coating the lithium batteries in particular would still go heavily green and begin to eat away at the terminal lugs. Underneath the bunks even though it was dry, the humidity the batteries experienced was heavy and constant. I really don't think electric would be a good idea for watercraft. I don't know if those hydrofoils have issues but I can believe it will be a sooner or later thing with them and then they're back into the cost of a new battery and/or electrics. For a decent battery to give a ski some good run time I wouldn't be surprised to see a hefty price tag running around at least 2/3 the cost of the ski if not more if the auto batteries are any indication of what to expect.
vancouversun.com
ICBC scraps 2022 electric car after owners faced with $60,000 bill to replace damaged battery
Damage to the EV's battery voided the vehicle's warranty and the quoted $60,000 replacement was more than a new car was worth
vancouversun.com
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