Msd Enhancers Are Same As Stock ????

[kid4now]

Just my 2 cents Mat stay away (far away) from MSD coils. Stick with stock and rebuilt JSS coils and wires.

Brad

As far as cdi's I have come to like stock cdi's with my timing advanced at the stator. I don't race so Im not running wide open and bouncing off the rev limiter and in the surf its not a factor free riding.

Going from stock to an msd enhancer you can feel the difference in the timing.

 

[Matt_E]

Why didn't someone say this before so many of us wasted our money .:banghead:

Ummm.....I've been saying for a while that if you paid more than $50 for one, you paid too much. JMHO of course.

 

[Matt_E]

I really don't know but I always figured all CDI's are basically the same. I have seen the various qualities of capacitors in general and I assume MSD and Advent just use really good caps and add the adjustable limiter and thats it, right?

I know my chit sparks like mad and I hate bouncing off of limiters.

I think the MSD combined with the JSS wires made a very noticeable difference
from idle to WOT. It just fires hard man!

So what about MSD coils? Same as OEM?

Has little to do with caps.

The OEM ignition gets power to fire the coil from the charge coil on the stator (then through a rectifier circuit). That means low power at low RPM, high power at high RPM.

The Enhancer gets power to fire the coil directly from the battery, circumventing the charge coil business. That means the same power spark throughout the RPM range.

There are only two factors that play into energy at the spark plug: Voltage and time.
MSD claims to improve voltage, through the direct battery power. Of course, at higher RPM, that's null and void.
Multiple spark discharge means more time for the spark, so higher energy.

A coil is a coil is a coil. The performance characteristics are determined by winding ratios. More important are reliability characteristics.
And that's where the MSD coil seems to suck.

 

[Matt_E]

Man I want one! But I want my JSS wires on it.

Why?

The only thing they could possibly do different is the windings ratio.

You might get a higher voltage, but it will be at the expense of current, and the available spark energy will likely stay the same. All that power has to come from somewhere, it doesn't just materialize in the coil.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

dayum you Matt_E!

for bringing logic, and reason into this thread.

I thought surely we had an 11 pager here...

 

[WFO Speedracer]

You would think with all the total loss threads that have been put up where the MSD coils went tits up that people would know better.

 

[Matt_E]

In my two years with TL, I have never had a coil go out.

TL coils and "Stock improved coils" are different animals.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

this thread takes me back to the days of wanting to make my own ignition box....


( at least when I run out of MSD enhancers and stock coils)

 

[BruceSki]

i want a 50 dollar (working)enhancer.... anybody selling????

 

[restosud]

the oem CDI still is a discharge capacitor system to trigger the coil.it just has it's own charging system separate from the battery.
the way yamy designed it,the voltage and current are still high enough at low speed to trigger the coil but it does get a little more powerfull at higher rpm's as the rectifier and regulator portion can only do so much to even out the voltage to the cdi.
the msd probably discharges at higher voltage to the coil,hence higher voltage at the plug.

 

[D-Roc]

why not mark TDC on the cases/coupler at the pto end and compare timing curves? should work if your couplers are tightened already.

 

[ski4]

Man I want one! But I want my JSS wires on it.

there is a reason john won't put his wires in these?
reliability asset?

 

[waxhead]

I wouldnt run jss wires with any digital ignition they are unsupressed and asking for issues

 

[Matt_E]

the oem CDI still is a discharge capacitor system to trigger the coil.it just has it's own charging system separate from the battery.
the way yamy designed it,the voltage and current are still high enough at low speed to trigger the coil but it does get a little more powerfull at higher rpm's as the rectifier and regulator portion can only do so much to even out the voltage to the cdi.
the msd probably discharges at higher voltage to the coil,hence higher voltage at the plug.

The Enhancer is also a CDI (Capacitive Discharge Ignition).
I seriously doubt the voltage to the primary of the coil is much different than stock, considering that the coil stays the same. (The designers must have taken that into account, they don't want to over-charge that coil)
The regulator has nothing to do with CDI voltage.
It is there ONLY for providing an even 14.5 VDC to the battery.

 

[crammit442]

I wouldnt run jss wires with any digital ignition they are unsupressed and asking for issues

Exactly! You don't even have to be using a digital ignition. ECWI is even more vulnerable since it's only potted. At least the TL brain is largely shielded. MSD super conductor wire is good stuff.:burnout:

 

[restosud]

i never talked about the voltage regulator for the charging system.i was refering to internal regulator portion of cdi as it needs one as well to function correctly.
MSD claims that their dicharge capacitor can go to 300v dc.this has been their claim from pretty much their beginnings.
i'll try to measure the output voltage of an oem cdi and an msd but need to find my scope first.
the higher voltage dumped into the coil is also one reason why it's very important to ground your leads before any testing.the reverse emf can be much stronger with msd thus damaging the coil or the msd as it goes back to the cdi.
i have yet to see an oem cdi go bad from this,but msd's usually do not survive such an event.
this would therefore indicate that the MSD pumps out a higher primary voltage.

 

[restosud]

are you sure the oem wires are resistor?
i've never seen this on any boats i've had.kawi or yami!
just tin plated copper if memory serves me right.
the plug ends are sometimes resistor style but older kawi were not.ecwi worked perfectly fine with those!

 

[ski4]

are you sure the oem wires are resistor?
i've never seen this on any boats i've had.kawi or yami!
just tin plated copper if memory serves me right.
the plug ends are sometimes resistor style but older kawi were not.ecwi worked perfectly fine with those!

ditto

 

[Matt_E]

i never talked about the voltage regulator for the charging system.i was refering to internal regulator portion of cdi as it needs one as well to function correctly.
MSD claims that their dicharge capacitor can go to 300v dc.this has been their claim from pretty much their beginnings.
i'll try to measure the output voltage of an oem cdi and an msd but need to find my scope first.
the higher voltage dumped into the coil is also one reason why it's very important to ground your leads before any testing.the reverse emf can be much stronger with msd thus damaging the coil or the msd as it goes back to the cdi.
i have yet to see an oem cdi go bad from this,but msd's usually do not survive such an event.
this would therefore indicate that the MSD pumps out a higher primary voltage.

Ah, gotcha about the regulator. :biggthumpup:
I don't know what the spec is on Yamaha's stock CDI, but I thought that the typical dump from the SCR to the coil primary for a std. CDI design is 400V.

 

[crammit442]

are you sure the oem wires are resistor?
i've never seen this on any boats i've had.kawi or yami!
just tin plated copper if memory serves me right.
the plug ends are sometimes resistor style but older kawi were not.ecwi worked perfectly fine with those!

I think you're right about most OE plug wires. I've never personally had a problem with non resistor wire issues, but I've been told it can be tough to diagnose the issue since it's usually intermittent. The trick coil mod would be to fix in place of the wire a permanent terminal so you could run any plug wire you choose.