rate of growth in freeride jetski?

[makejetskiinggreatagain]

I agree that everyone wants to mod a ski, myself included. I just wish a large company would believe in the sport like we do and start producing a product aimed at todays changed sport. I would love to see it gow faster. Its booming, and while it may never have a significant market share in the PWC world, we all see that money is there to be made. If done right, who knows, maybe it could grow into an industry the size of freestyle motocross. Just dreaming I guess.... Enough of that. Ride on!

 

[Balduccimoto]

I think some people missed the point of my earlier post. It's not that the ski's should be necessarily cheaper. The point I was trying to get across is; not many people can save enough money for such a large purchase. Such as a car ($15k+) but the reason we get them is people walk into a dealer and sign a note where they pay low monthly payments where they never feel it. The same goes for those who buy a motorcycle. Unfortunately MANY people young and old choose to take a loan rather than save the money. How often I hear how good a "deal" is by how much they are paying monthly rather than total interest/principal. The freestyle community lacks this "ease of attainability". Look at more popular motorsports..

You want to race motorcycles? Go to the local dealer
You want to race motocross? Go to the local dealer
You want to race jet ski? Go to dealer buy RXP

It all starts with a half of a intent, a walk into a dealer and a signature.

Freestyling has a higher initial start up cost, harder to find and higher learning curve. All this works against it.

 

[Vumad]

Im not saying I expect a 1200cc powered carbon ski for under 15K. TC builds top of the line skis, and I would never argue that his prices are out of line. He is building corvettes for the price of a corvette. What I am saying is that I think a large manufacturer could build a LOWER end ENTRY lever ski that is better aimed toward the type of riders that there are today. I don't see why Yamaha couldn't produce a slightly smaller ski to save a little weight, keep a 701 in it, put some footholds on it, add some rocker, and sell it for close to what a SJ already sells for. SJ's may have been the gold standard back when it was all about hood tricks and subs. Times change, just like every single freestyle sport out there. Now it is the gold standard for entry level freestyle....after you add footholds....after you reinforce so you can roll it.....after you add a B bipe to give it a little bump in HP.....after you change the prop.....etc etc. All of those changes could be done at the factory for very little added cost. Look, I bought a brand new SJ and guess what, All I want to do is change it just like every single person on this site has done with their SJ. Its not an entry level freestyle boat anymore. the riding style has changed. The ski should evolve as well, and it hasn't....but I believe it could. I DONT WANT A CORVETTE AT A MUSTANG PRICE, I WANT A MUSTANG AT A MUSTANG PRICE.

Except I don't want that. Reinforcing the bond line adds weight and must be done by hand after the bonding. Foot holds require a 3-part mold (at a minimum) and I don't want them either. I most certainly do not want rocker. Yamaha sells to the mass market, and what the mass market wants is flexibility. We can race it, we can surf it, we can flatwater roll it. Kawasaki went wrong because they buiilt a race specific ski. We all know a pipe and a head is easy from the factory, but they reduce reliability and not everyone wants them.

Emissions is also a big issue for the factory. Did you know that my YFZ450 came a jet too lean so it would pass emissions? The 1st thing on a list of mods for a band new YFZ450 (pre-fuel injection) is to rejet the carb. Sounds crazy, but at least they got it to me. The YFZ450R is another good example, because it came 50inches, alienated the trail riders while the racers changed out all the factory stuff for aftermarket stuff anyway. Bye bye 450R and hello 450X. And what is a 450X? Just a 450 with fuel injection and an aluminum frame.

You want them to build something rider specific for the mass market. I simply do not want what you want.

I think the best way Yamaha could help the community would be to offer a Poly boat (like the spark) for dirt cheap ($4k?), so people can get in, then switch their stuff to an aftermarket hull shortly thereafter.

 

[makejetskiinggreatagain]

I think the best way Yamaha could help the community would be to offer a Poly boat (like the spark) for dirt cheap ($4k?), so people can get in, then switch their stuff to an aftermarket hull shortly thereafter.

I agree with you on that note. Doubt it will ever happen since Yamaha has no desire to put in any R&D effort. But who knows, maybe after seadoo steals 90% of yamaha's sales with the spark they might realize that a little innovation actually helps business....

I honestly cant believe the Yamaha cult following. Criticizing yamaha in this sport is likened to blasphemy. Admitting that a superjet is not an absolutely perfect specimen of watercraft, priced perfectly and appealing to every new rider, is community suicide. No other product fanbase is so blindly loyal....aside from maybe Toyota owners. I jumped on the bandwagon and bought one and I'm not impressed at all. The problem is that they are the only option. that is the biggest problem, and the reason that they don't feel the need to do any market research. They know that they have a monopoly on the sport for the price point. Am I the only one that thinks this way???????

 

[Vumad]

I honestly cant believe the Yamaha cult following. Criticizing yamaha in this sport is likened to blasphemy. Admitting that a superjet is not an absolutely perfect specimen of watercraft, priced perfectly and appealing to every new rider, is community suicide. No other product fanbase is so blindly loyal....aside from maybe Toyota owners. I jumped on the bandwagon and bought one and I'm not impressed at all. The problem is that they are the only option. that is the biggest problem, and the reason that they don't feel the need to do any market research. They know that they have a monopoly on the sport for the price point. Am I the only one that thinks this way???????

Cult? I'm defending them but I'm certainly not part of a cult following. My point is that people want rocker, foot holds, this, that, I don't want that crap and neither do a lot of people. I race my superjet when I'm not in the surf. I own a superjet because it's versatile. The superjet is not about buying a purpose built ski for the seasoned rider. It's about buying a versatile ski for the entry rider. It leaves the door open to find the niche, then we move to aftermarket.

Judge Yamaha all you want. Call them a monopoly. But when you are done, realize they deliver a complete RTR ski to you for less than almost any aftermarket manufacturer can get you a hull, hood and pole. Apples to apples, RTR to RTR, yamaha is $50% off.

 

[makejetskiinggreatagain]

Vumad, I'm not talking about your post and wasnt trying to throw any insults your way. I thought you made valid points. My statement was meant to be an entirely different comment referring to the vibe the entire community has and the backlash of negative response from most members any time its mentioned that Yamaha has room to improve. I shouldn't have made that comment on the same response to quoting your previous post.

in response to your RTR comment, I agree that their price is fine. My point of view is that they are targeting a market that is dying. It seems to me that the freestyle community is growing at a much faster rate than the racing community, and the fact that Yamaha hasn't really made many changes to meet that demographic's needs is why they only sell a few hundred skis. I think that if they offered possibly another model with the add ons mentioned before for the same price they sell the superjet for now, they could sell many more.

 

[makejetskiinggreatagain]

This topic always gets heated and I don't think it should. Im happy that skis are still being made and should give Yamaha credit for that. I just think there is an untapped market that could be reached with a little r&d, a similar price point to the SJ, and like curbyourho said, financing that only a large manufacturer like Yamaha and Kawasaki will be able to provide.

 

[OCD Solutions]

I think some people missed the point of my earlier post. It's not that the ski's should be necessarily cheaper. The point I was trying to get across is; not many people can save enough money for such a large purchase. Such as a car ($15k+) but the reason we get them is people walk into a dealer and sign a note where they pay low monthly payments where they never feel it. The same goes for those who buy a motorcycle. Unfortunately MANY people young and old choose to take a loan rather than save the money. How often I hear how good a "deal" is by how much they are paying monthly rather than total interest/principal. The freestyle community lacks this "ease of attainability". Look at more popular motorsports..

You want to race motorcycles? Go to the local dealer
You want to race motocross? Go to the local dealer
You want to race jet ski? Go to dealer buy RXP

It all starts with a half of a intent, a walk into a dealer and a signature.

Freestyling has a higher initial start up cost, harder to find and higher learning curve. All this works against it.

This country is collapsing around us all because of this dream called "ease of obtainability". Thus my earlier rant about personal responsibility.

 

[OCD Solutions]

in response to your RTR comment, I agree that their price is fine. My point of view is that they are targeting a market that is dying. It seems to me that the freestyle community is growing at a much faster rate than the racing community, and the fact that Yamaha hasn't really made many changes to meet that demographic's needs is why they only sell a few hundred skis. I think that if they offered possibly another model with the add ons mentioned before for the same price they sell the superjet for now, they could sell many more.

I think there's a lot of history that you may not be aware of regarding emissions regulations and the sale of 2 strokes. The available units for sale have slowly been reduced to meet federal regulations based on total emissions, not market demand. Companies like Yamaha and Kawasaki received extensions to continue these sales for I think 3 years, but even those have run out in the last couple years. To bring the product back to market, they have to either switch to 4 strokes, (which would kill the freestyle crowd anyways), or invest a ton of research into new 2 stroke engines that meet or exceed the emission requirements. As much as I would like to see them to keep the 2 stroke alive, it doesn't appear that Yamaha or Kawasaki has any current business plan to do so. It's a shame too because there are companies like Evinrude and Bombardier that are doing it quite well. It's a complicated subject with much more going on in the background than just market need.

I understand where you are coming from and why you feel the way you feel. I just don't see it happening by any large scale manufacturer in the near future. I also agree it's dissapointing but what are you going to do. In the meantime, I have decided to turn my attention and support to the aftermarket guys for solutions and so far they are not disappointing me.

P.S. I wouldn't consider Yamaha a cult. I use them as an example simply because they seem to be the most appropriate fit to the current conversation and the most universally appealing option available. They are the closest to the "one shoe fits all" that one could possibly get in this industry. Unfortunately, like you pointed out earlier, the market no longer finds this so appealing.

 

[Coldwater]

OCD hit the nail on the head.

 

[kevbo]

Solas needs to start making 1200cc engines to go with their pumps.

 

[masterblaster]

Some of you who are seeing alot of new standups in your area riding,what is the avg age of the new riders,what kinda skis arey they mostly using?
Times are changing,so are all moto sports and extreme sports,by leaps and bounds. Standups have just out progressed the sj. imagine if yamaha hadnt changed there motox bikes since 96,how many would they still sell. The sj is like the civic of the ski world,not very capable unless many mods are added to it to even begin being useful even for surf freeride.

Some of you are missing the point,No one I know or I see posting here wants a skyline for the price of the civic.But there is a huge demand for something like a wrx. Something capable stock and priced well for the main stream riders.That was a game changer car and changed the market huge.
Boyer.. I have 4 sport skis, carbon freak custom motor,multi sports cars,diesel trucks atvs ,toys ect ect,but i have no debt other than a few mortgages.I run my own company so I know what you mean by working hard.We are of the minority of old guys in the sport,we are not going to change anything long term.Its the younger guys that are going to evolve it in the future. Ive seen a few young guys that manage to buy very high ends skis living on shoe string budget,they would do them selves better to be reading the Dave Ramsey financial thread.. Im not talking about a setup $500 cheaper than the avg,im talking about a real game changer coming to market looking to succeed on moving much higher number of units for a wrx kinda performance/pricepoint

The old guys will still buy the new latest greatest skyline type,hull or motor every yr,to have the best of the best...its all good,but thats never going to really impact/change the market or the sport long term

 

[mxmark4]

Around here it seems to be dying off. Our crew was like 8 guys riding a couplenof times a week to 3 of us and I barely have time to ride. I have seen a couple kids on 550s and invited them out but they are really I to chasing boats and such .our crew is now at three guys and typically we dont get together but once in a blue moon it seems. So I guess its dying off around here

 

[OCD Solutions]

Well I don't know what you have up your sleeve MB but judging by the last couple threads you started, something new is coming.

Good luck to you!

 

[Scraggly]

I had never seen one here personally until my friend found a x2 on craigslist. I was hooked after riding his. Found a 550 shortly after and a few months later a x2. We let other friends, acquaintances and a few random people ride those skis. A few got there own after, but lost interest after a couple years. Just recently I have found another rider in my area and one of my neighbors is a old school racer freestyler. It's them my wife and I only now. It's nice though and will always rides when in town.

I'm afraid if we had a lot if riders like us on the lake it would get draw more in wanted attention. For now we are pretty much left alone. Sometimes the cops will just come talk because there curious and even had them make us waves before. Pretty sure all that would go away fast

 

[SuperDrifter]

How's sales on the Spark? Seems Bombardier sees potential in a 'smaller' runabout.

 

[mxmark4]

Well as far as I am concerned no one deserves to get an am hill and big motor as a first ski. I think you need to slug it out on a stock ski first and mod it and work your way up.

 

[Scraggly]

None of us deserves anything. Skis are a luxury we are all lucky to have what ever we do. We also have a great place to connect and share. I don't think a persons first ride should be a circus with a 1200, but if you can why not? They put kids on very hot 450's in motor cross and no one bats an eye.

 

[masterblaster]

Well I don't know what you have up your sleeve MB but judging by the last couple threads you started, something new is coming.

Good luck to you!

Ya think so huh...My business leaves very lil time avail but i get a bit of time to regroup in jan feb to ....have fun. that just may be the diff

mxmark..every group has to be able to mange through a certain level of attrition due to all sorts of things,in our group we use to be 20+ strong. For instance in our group,we lost most of our older guys to injury and prematurely wearing out from riding ALOT at a higher level than age really allows..lol.We lost alot of our young guys to growing up and getting real jobs,or being transferred out with jobs or military deployments. the question is are they being replaced in other areas at a rate higher than the losses in some that have peaked. standup skis have a much bigger allure in certain areas

 

[mxmark4]

No one deserves anything I agree but I always had to make do with what I could get my hands on and let my skills give me the edge. Im still living life that way and when I get a sweet deal I flip it to pay for all my toys and mods for my hobbies. I know some kids can get a new hull with a big motor like its nothin but I just think everyone needs to earn it just a bit. Plus most fanboy types who drop big money on any hobby and then arent any good at it usually dontnstick with it in my experience.

Mb our group has grown and then shrank and most of its just due to growin up.I had a kid one guy sold his stuff to pay for a wedding etc. My buddy is tired of riding and says how many times can you flip a ski before it gets old, I wouldnt know that one yet but maybe one day.