Removing Top Deck? (1987 JS550 Rebuild/Engine Swap)

[smokeysevin]

EDIT: I opted not to split the deck, sorry for the misdirect. The hull was more fragile up near the nose than I thought and I didn't want to ruin it. The rest of the thread is my attempt to build the hull and swap in a new motor. Thanks for the input everyone, Build Starts on Post 10

I am planning on doing a full teardown and repair on my 1987 JS550 and was thinking it might be nice to split the deck to have better access. Are there any hidden fastners or clips I need to be on the lookout for? I was planning on just using heat and wedges to split the glue on the bond line.

Is this a terrible idea? there are a few cracks near the nose I want to reinforce from the inside and was thinking this would be the best/right way to do it.

Thanks,

Sean

 

[Kohldanielzimmer]

I personally think splitting the decks to do repairs is going to end up causing more problems (i.e., difficulty properly rebonding) than it would yield in benefits for greater access.

 

[Sanoman]

As long as you took your time and used patience to split the hull and deck,l can’t imagine there would be much damage at all.A well thought out plan before you start..

 

[smokeysevin]

Fair points both of you, I have my doubts about getting a good repair up near the nose/hood joint without separating it. My re-bonding plan was to either use thickened epoxy or 5200. Both cases I was thinking I would drill some holes in the bond line flange before separating so I can bolt it together and use the fasteners for alignment when it comes time to reassemble.

Sean

 

[Sanoman]

Thickened epoxy with glass strands.Harbor freight clamps work well.You may not be able to remove the fasteners later on when the epoxy dries.But,interesting you mentioned drilling holes.Just me thinking aloud (that’s scary!),but having holes drilled would essentially allow the epoxy to make the two pieces have a bond through them.Then sand off the excess.

 

[smokeysevin]

In the past I have just lubed the threads with wax/mold release and used an impact to zip them out. That is a good point about the holes though, its extra bond area. I like the idea of leaving them open now.

Secondary question, If I trim the bond flange so its just a straight flange section and not a L shape anymore am I asking for structural trouble down the road other than it being slippery when I have to load and unload the ski?

Sean

 

[Big Kahuna]

Are you talking about removing the lip all the way around? If so, your handling will go to poop.

 

[smokeysevin]

Are you talking about removing the lip all the way around? If so, your handling will go to poop.

I was but that is good to know.

Sorry for the ignorance, I have been working with couches for years.

Sean

 

[Sanoman]

Any updates!

 

[smokeysevin]

Teardown

I got started doing some work on the ski and found it to be in worse shape than I thought. There was lots of glass and bondo "reinforcement" on it that I had to chip out. The inner surface wasn't even roughed up...

I may still try and split the deck but I am not sure at this point. Its a lot more flimsy than I thought and I am worried I will just crack the deck more.

Having spent some time hunched over it yesterday, it looks like there is probably enough access to do the reinforcement and repair if I just lean the ski over 90 degrees. I would repair one side at a time.

I already managed to toss a chisel through the nose once in the process so I am a little worried about a repeat performance. The outer edge of the bond rail also looks like it was glued or repaired in a few places when looking at it from the bottom so I am worried I may hit hard spots.

Time Spent:
6 Hours on and off

Tools Used:
1/2" Wood Chisel
3/4" Wood Chisel
1" Wood Chisel
Hammer
Shop Vac

Existing "Repairs" Removed:
3

New Damage Done:
1 new hull vent near nose

Muscles Strained:
3

PPE Used:
Half Respirator
3M Worktunes Heaphones
Safety Glasses
Gloves

Sean

Exit Wound

Nose "Repair" Before

Nose "Repair" After

Leftovers

 

[Sanoman]

Good start to the project.Tearing out someone else’s work is never fun.l did a repair job on a RN SJ a few years ago where a marina “repair” shop put some footholds on it.Terrible job,used polyester resin to bond it.It did peal off quite easily,but the shop did not overlay the footholds and gunwale’s.They just laid a strip of glass over the two pieces and returfed over it.Under the tray was full of water!
Take your time and think five steps ahead of what your doing.Ask questions and good luck!

 

[smokeysevin]

Stripping the hull part 1

Got the ski totally stripped with the exception of the pump and driveline yesterday. I cleaned up one side of the inner engine bay and rolled the hull up on its side to try and get better access to it.

I think I am going to end up making a template for the reinforcement today or tomorrow. I have some 3:1 epoxy and 5 yards of 50" wide 1208 on the way from uscomposites for the repairs. Once that's good I am going to throw a coat of interlux engine bay coating on it.

Current plan is to clean up the inside of the engine bay and do a layer of cabosil thickened epoxy along the bond line. I will sand that flush and then do a layer of 1208 on the inner engine bay surfaces.

The hood flange is cracked in a few spots so I was thinking about running the reinforcement up to the top and then filling the gap up with more of the cabosil or some chopped strand and cab.

When I removed the motor mounts the gaps were filled with some seriously rancid water, is there any reason I can't fill the holes in them and the bottom of the battery box up with more thickened epoxy?

I found what looks like 3 factory holes in the bulkhead that have raw foam exposed on them. If I stick my finger in them the foam is pretty wet. Does this foam get waterlogged? I can pickup the hull now that its stripped and I am not that big of a dude so its not outrageously heavy.

Time Spent:
8 Hours but who is counting?

Tools Used:
1/2" Wood Chisel
3/4" Wood Chisel
1" Wood Chisel
5" Random Orbital Sander
5" Cloth Mesh 80 Grit Sanding Pads
Rockwell Oscillating Multi Tool
Hammer
Shop Vac
Steel Wire Brush in Drill

Sheets of Hydroturf Removed:
1

New Damage Done:
Scraped Paint

Muscles Strained:
4

PPE Used:
Half Respirator
3M Worktunes Headphones
Safety Glasses
Gloves

Materials Ordered:
1 Gallon 3:1 Epoxy
Cabosil
Microspheres
5 Yards 1208 (50" wide)
Roller
Pizza Cutter

Sean

Tray with turf removed

Peeling paint in tunnel

Crusty Bottom

Cracks Near Motor Mount

Inside Nose

Nose "Repair"

Cool Fiber Mesh Sanding Pads

 

[smokeysevin]

Inner Glasswork Part 1

The hull is sitting on its side now with the inside was stripped out, scuffed with 80 grit and wiped with alcohol to remove excess dust. I put one layer of 1208 fiberglass and 3:1 epoxy resin from us composites on the inside edge of the hull from the inside upper edge of the hood flange to the bottom. I ran the glass about an inch past the corner onto the lower portion of the hull. I used the us composites . I cleaned out most of the loose glue and mixed up some cabosil resin to fill the gaps.

I have enough cloth to do another couple layers, is it worth doing or is one enough? I will be doing additional reinforcement on the nose and handlepole area and the hood flanges.

The hull came with a set of blowsion tubbies on the outside held on with wood screws that stuck through like punji spikes, I was thinking about throwing some nut-serts or ufo style mounts in the holes so they sit flush with the inside of the hull. The tubbies are foamed on and glued with some kind of silicone, do they need the fastners on them or are they just for install purposes.

Time Spent:
4 Hours, stop judging me!

Tools Used:
Rockwell Oscillating Multi Tool
Shop Vac
Mixing Cups
Mixing Stick

Materials Used:
8 OZ Denatured Alcohol
4 Blue Shop Towels
16 OZ Resin/Hardener
24" 1208 Cloth
8 OZ Cabosil
1 Hazard Fart Paint Brush


New Damage Done:
None

Muscles Strained:
2

PPE Used:
Half Respirator
3M Worktunes Heaphones
Black Spider Gloves from Blowes

Beer Consumed:
1 Shiner Prickly Pear

Percentage complete:
25%

Sean

Glass and Patch

Glass and Patch

Layer Overlap near Hood Seam

Bond Line

Nose Reinforcement/Repair

Templates

 

[smokeysevin]

Inner Glasswork Part 2

I rolled the hull over onto the other side and repeated the process. Fortunately my template worked on both sides and I ended up with reasonably well fitting repairs on both side that actually match.

Moving forwards, do I need to knock this down to bare smc to paint it? I am concerned about mixing paint chemistry being incompatible with the existing garbage and having some hard work just go drooling down the side of the hull. I am leaning heavily towards doing a black bottom deck with a dark steel gray top deck, black turf, and either a black or gray handlepole. I would then go with black thru hull fittings and reinforcements.

I was also planning on throwing in a stripped 650 long block into the hull but came across a deal on a complete 750 so that is the new plan. Eventually I will swap over to the rhass driveline setup (https://www.rhaasproducts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=550750pump) but for now I am just planning on running the 550 setup so I can get some water time in. That means that the red top 650 is for sale, if you want it shoot me a message. It is a complete good long block 160psi per the ebay seller with new crank seals. It spins super smooth by hand. I have a flywheel and magneto on the way for it and can toss a cover on if it will sell quicker that way.


Time Spent:
2 Hours, look I was bound to eventually figure out this stuff...

Tools Used:
Rockwell Oscillating Multi Tool
5" Orbital Sander
Shop Vac
Mixing Cups
Mixing Stick
Drill with Step Bit
1" Chisel

Materials Used:
8 OZ Denatured Alcohol
4 Blue Shop Towels
12 OZ Resin/Hardener
24" 1208 Cloth
1 Hazard Fart Paint Brush
Painters Tape


New Damage Done:
2 Lost Rivets in the rear hull during sponson removal

Muscles Strained:
0

PPE Used:
Half Respirator
3M Worktunes Headhones
Black Spider Gloves from Blowes

Beer Consumed:
0 (forgot to put them in the fridge

Percentage complete:
40%

Sean

Nose Reinforcement

Cabosil on Bond Line at Rear

Side Repair

Side with additional Repair Required Shown, the hull is pretty lumpy there

Tubby with Paint Removed

Sponson Area with Paint Mostly Scraped (this thing is like a jawbreaker)

Gross

 

[smokeysevin]

Inner Glasswork Part 3 (Where you feel like you are ready for some corners so you get wrecked)

I rolled the hull upside down and attempted to layup the inner hood flange and hood to nose flange. Things didn't go well... I setup the hull on 2 bar stools and crawled under it. The hull did not fall and squish me so that was nice.

I think I tried to run the strands the wrong direction because it was like trying to keep a tape measure bent down. Either way, it was a pain in the ass and ultimately didn't work properly. I was really hoping for good news when I went out this morning but it was not to be. I will end up cutting back the loose edge somehow and will redo the edge with some cloth to get a good wrap. Fiberglass is really not my thing though. I really want to get to the fun part of bolting stuff on but I know I need to do it right so slog away with fiberglass I must.

Time Spent:
4 Hours this was poop and I epoxied my head multiple times. I look like guy fieri now.

Tools Used:
Rockwell Oscillating Multi Tool
5" Orbital Sander
Shop Vac
Mixing Cups
Mixing Stick
Dremel with roto-zip bit

Materials Used:
8 OZ Denatured Alcohol
4 Blue Shop Towels
12 OZ Resin/Hardener
8" 1208 Cloth
1 Hazard Fart Paint Brush
Painters Tape
misc clamps
door shims wrapped in painters tape

New Damage Done:
none

Muscles Strained:
1

PPE Used:
Half Respirator
3M Worktunes Headhones
Black Spider Gloves from Blowes

Items of Clothing Ruined:
Pair of jeans
Long Sleeve Thermals
Welding Jacket
T-Shirt

Leg Hair Removed when taking ruined jeans off due to epoxy drips:
40%

Percentage of Garage Floor Epoxy Coated
12%

Percentage complete:
42% (This was an abject failure which I will probably not be redoing)

Sean

Peanut Butter Filled Motor Mounts

MMMM Peanut Butter

Don't forget to sand your peanut butter

Safety First Gents

My Workspace Last Night. It was awful.

Clamped In Place (This was taken 12 hours later after it cured. I left the hull upside down last night)

Nose that didn't stick, either I ran the glass the wrong direction or it was colder than the resin wanted to tack up. It didn't stick for poop.

 

[Sanoman]

Probably this info is too late now,but us composite through one our members:
http://www.x-h2o.com/index.php?threads/laying-fiberglass-dry.197768/#post-2046070

 

[smokeysevin]

Probably this info is too late now,but us composite through one our members:
http://www.x-h2o.com/index.php?threads/laying-fiberglass-dry.197768/#post-2046070

I was trying to follow that method but something didn't work right. I think it was just that it was cold in the garage and I didn't let the resin tack enough, then the cloth was short on the hood flange side and the corner was kind of sharp.

That thread is a good read and worked really well on the inside corners on the nose but here they just weren't sticking.

Oh well, grind it off and try again right?


Edit: reread the post and I probably didn't wait long enough, I gave it 20 minutes to kick not 40. Oh well.


Sean



Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

 

[Sanoman]

I was trying to follow that method but something didn't work right. I think it was just that it was cold in the garage and I didn't let the resin tack enough, then the cloth was short on the hood flange side and the corner was kind of sharp.

That thread is a good read and worked really well on the inside corners on the nose but here they just weren't sticking.

Oh well, grind it off and try again right?


Edit: reread the post and I probably didn't wait long enough, I gave it 20 minutes to kick not 40. Oh well.


Sean



Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

Throw the tyvek suit on and start grinding!
Yea,at least 45 min to let the resin set up.Works like a charm.l used the method last weekend and it works,even in compound curves.Get busy!

 

[smokeysevin]

Inner Glasswork Part 4 (The part in which our hero finds a semblance of redemption and moves onto other jobs)

Having received some excellent advice over the last week both here and on the other pwc forum (the blue one not the green one) I started by raising the hull up and allowing it to stand nose up. Fortunately I installed a overhead hoist to raise the transmission up when I was installing a new clutch on my old N18 Mini Cooper S so it was just a matter of adding a rope and cranking away. Of course, I didn't do it that way because I am not that smart when it comes to simple stuff. Instead, I did some seriously sketchy workout maneuvers to raise the hull up with one hand while clipping the stern strap to the lifting hook... You can't fix stupid (I have tried) but it worked and I wasn't squished.

I started by mixing 4OZ of resin and cabosil into some deliciously smooth peanut butter and stuffed that up in my nose. I then mixed up another 8OZ of resin and smeared that all over the repair areas and let it start to kick. While that was gelling, I started cooking some italian sausage in a red sauce.

Recipe (NOTE: ADD SEASONING TO TASTE)
5 links Italian Sausage
1 Head Garlic, peeled and chopped ( I do bigger chunks but you do you...)
1/2 Large Yellow onion, halved again and cut into thin rings
4OZ Olive Oil
2 Large cans San Marzano Tomatoes
6 OZ Red Wine
2 OZ Balsamic Vinegar
2 TBSP Granulated Chicken Bouillon
1 TBSP Capers with splash of Sauce
2 TBSP Sun Dried Tomatoes with sauce
As much Basil as you can find
Tomato Paste

Brown the sausage in a large dutch oven over medium heat.
Once browned on 2 sides add olive oil and allow to heat for a few minutes then add onions and garlic stirring occasionally.
Remove Sausage from dutch oven and slice into thin sections. Add back to onions and garlic on stove stirring frequently.
Once sausage has had time for the fat to render into pan, add remaining ingredients and simmer for at least 30 minutes.
Return to garage to continue fiberglass work.

Time Spent:
4 Hours including waiting for the epoxy to gel

Tools Used:
Rockwell Oscillating Multi Tool
5" Orbital Sander
Shop Vac
Mixing Cups
Mixing Stick

Materials Used:
8 OZ Denatured Alcohol
4 Blue Shop Towels
16 OZ Resin/Hardener
16" 1208 Cloth
1 Hazard Fart Paint Brush
Painters Tape

Old Repairs Removed:
Nose Job part 2

Kawasaki Bonding Adhesive Removed:
2lbs

Muscles Strained:
2

PPE Used:
Half Respirator
Tyvek Suit
3M Worktunes Headhones
Black Spider Gloves from Blowes

Items of Clothing Ruined:
Tyvek Suit (Walked past my tubing notcher and caught the back of it on a 1-5/8" Hole Saw...)

Chemical Burns from Epoxy:
1

Percentage of Garage Floor Epoxy Coated
18%

Percentage complete:
65% (I will finish up the bond line reinforcement tomorrow. )

Sean

Workshop Before, this is where the magic disasters happen

Find the winch

Strung Up

Lit Up

Cut Up

Stuck Up

Covered Up

Nose Up

 

[Sanoman]

Nice work there!