Super Jet RN SJ -2" Fast Elements, DASA, Skat Mag, Cold Fusion Build up

[Proformance1]

Thanks for the advise, but this is with an MSD enhancer! LOL everyone keeps looking at the EPIC. ITS NOT THE EPIC, I have an issue, it was not there before, but now it is.

It started around 2 hours on a fresh everything except Stator. How do i know if JSS coil from Jetmaniac is resistor wires and caps any way? Are MSD caps resistor? Im running BR8ES plugs. Headed to shop now to check AC voltage on the Stator while turning over. I'm not saying that something didnt casue something else to fail and now this is why i'm having an issue, but it is backfiring with stock CDI and MSD Enhancer. Hell the first backfire could have cracked a reed and now thats my problem.

 

[Proformance1]

Charge coil 42-43 volts AC
Pulse coil 3 volts steady. Not sure if I should go buy an analog gauge to check this reading again of not as the pulsing 4-5 volts AC wont show on my gauge. Thoughts from the experts?

Time to go pull the carbs and reeds

 

[Proformance1]

Ok for those of you not looking to read the whole thread. I have a slight backfire issue. Was big issue, broke starter and bendix, but new battery made condition much less. Removed Epic after backfire, tried Flash 11, wiped entire memory. Its off to ATP for repair.

Installed stock known good CDI, mine from my other 05 ski. Replaced battery with new AGM, back fire is now much less and intermittent. Installed new MSD enhancer, condition is same as with stock cdi.

I have been riding it trying to diagnose. Put about 2 1/2 hrs on it like this. Everything is fine except the slight backfire upon starting. I can see the PV's pop up as soon as it backfires.

Tested stator in above few posts. Checks mostly good, except the analog tester part which I dont have an analog tester. Should I go get one?

Pulled Full Spec carbs and Boyesen reeds they look fine. Butterflys are even and if i turn down idle screw both seat like new. Debating if i should take reeds apart to inspect closer.

Does this leave me with the only opotion of buying a new stator because I cant find anything wrong with anything?

 

[Proformance1]

Finished inspecting reeds and carbs all looks fine. Rejetted mains to 127.5 from 130 and rechecked pop off at 22-23 psi on both. They dont start leaking till close to the pressure so that seems normal.

 

[snowxr]

Yeah, I saw that you took the Epic out. Just prepping for when you get it back. As for the plug caps, the MSD's are not resistor type, but OEM plug caps are. Reading your stator readings, they seem right, but I didn't see where you checked the rectifier's output. I'd feel safe with 13-15v @3500rpm. Higher unregulated voltage might cook the battery and even cause electrical interferance. The rectifier converts AC to DC, unless it fails which would allow AC voltage to your CDI. Worth a look.

Hopefully your stator isn't loose behind the flywheel. That would cause backfires. A sheared flywheel key, too. But that would be rare and unlikely, since the ski does consistantly run.

Kurt

 

[Proformance1]

Kurt. No i didnt check rectifier i will though as its all still apart. Stators tight as i just took off TBM for a lightened 62T to rule out any other issues

 

[tightithrash]

damn man!

 

[QJS]

I would say you just cured the problem.
Chris.

 

[Proformance1]

[video=vimeo;31387581]http://vimeo.com/31387581[/video]

Flywheel has been changed for a few weeks, still the same issue.

Here is the video from before with stock CDI, known good, and battery reading 12.5V, fully charged on a trickle charger, that load tested bad. This was with 62T flywheel, lightened and bad battery.

I will do video with good battery with MSD. its not nearly as bad, very very slight and once in a while.

 

[Proformance1]

Ordered a new OEM stator to be on the safe side. It wont be in for a week, but with all the issues i'm having it was just one more new part i should have bought over the summer build.

Just finished a two day disassemble of ebox, electrical testing, carb main jet change from 130 to 127.5 and reed clean and check. Everything looks ok, reassembled to get video of the slight backfire with the MSD, and nothing is wrong. I started it 5 times but it was getting late so i figure i'll try again tomorrow. It was an intermittent problem, but...

It actually seems like its turning over faster when i'm starting it again, like before when I had no issues with the Epic.

I'm lost, that only thing that could have changed is the Main jets and possibly the primer plunger is dry. I did play with the connections in the ebox, red/wite and brown/white wire for testing, but I have had three CDI's in there and all three have had the same issue. Stock, MSD, and Epic. I couldn't have missed a connection being tight three times???

This is getting stupid! I will try again tomorrow but its perfect. I did lower the idle a little also, not sure where it was at until its back in the water. I shot video, im uploading now


[video=vimeo;31467612]http://vimeo.com/31467612[/video]

 

[Proformance1]

ALLRIGHT, I am at just about the end of my chain. This build has sucked the life out of me on the highs and lows. I have about 2800 into a SJ hull, about 400 hours of labor and have consulted everyone i can think of from electrical engineers to manufacturers about this damn backfire issue.

I do not feel like breaking another starter and bendix again, I'm tired, confused, broke and pissed off. I wish I had never started this damn build.

When its on the water, its awesome. Doing a full throttle back flip with trim made me dizzy how fast it spun. I laugh just thinking about doing more. I have wrenched all my life and dont mind doing some, but I have been on this one issue since September and have spent well over 2500 dollars chasing issues and swapping parts. I have broken a new OEM stater, bendix, chipped a TBM flywheel, replaced with remanfactured Zero light weight 62T flywheel, Bought a new OEM coil to replace my new rebuilt JSS Jetmaniac coil, Another new battery, because the last one cracked a cell after 2 hrs of ride time, but still managed to read full charge and 12.5V, even bought a new MSD enhancer for trouble shooting to make sure that my low hr 05 CDI didnt go bad sitting on a shelf, not to mention im on my second Epic ignition in 4 hrs of ride time. There is more, i just am too tired to continue.

 

[Proformance1]

For tonights listeners i have the events of the last 4 hours of wrenching and electronic bafflement.

Chris has been helping me diagnose along with others. He replaced the Epic I snet him a few weeks back in a very expedient manner. He told me not to install until I have the backfire issue fixed.

Started the day off where I finished last night. I decided to start the ski with the MSD a few times. 15 to be precise. Its perfect, thought about just putting it back together and going for a ride. Since the Epic showed up and it was already dark here I decided, hey its fixed, ill try the Epic with the latest flash to see how it goes. I no longer have a back fire so it seemed like a good idea right?

Fast forward to after programming in my curves etc. I install, start it its fine, decide to do it a few more times and BANG. Another backfire. Now im flipping, but not ready to point any fingers yet. I never really did find anything wrong the issue just went away with reinstalling the carbs and reeds and cleaning them.

[video=vimeo;31522361]http://vimeo.com/31522361[/video]

Now I am going to reinstall the MSD while the motor is warm to prove only the Epic is doing the backfire. Install the MSD and start it 5 times, no problems.

Now Im thinking about reinstalling the Epic and using a separate battery to power the epic from the starter. Voltage drop stuff can play havoc on electronic ignitions if my new rebuilt temporary starter is drawing too many amps at start up. Big bore new motor, etc all affect this.

Changed my mind and decided to try the MSD one more time first to warm the motor. BANG, backfire with the MSD. Damn this ski! Its almost like if the motor sets it gets worse. Like a fuel issue. Hmmm, primer leaking and fuel getting into the carbs after sitting, then go to start it and that is whats going on. Thats easy just unplug the line and see if anything changes.

Well I have a new Yamaha OEM coil in the package I should try, along with the unhooked primer. MSD is still installed, BANG, BIG backfire. Started fine 4 times after backfire perfectly.

Does anyone think that having the EPIC installed in the Ebox and still having it grounded may affect anything? I had every other wire unhooked

Maybe along with the ozone issue just owning an Epic is causing me these issues. Matter of fact the ski was fine until it was delivered in the mail today!!!

Next I tried a separate battery for the MSD with the new coil to isolate if from the Starter circuit amp draw. Similar to what i would do with the EPIC if there were no issues with the MSD test. It starts fine, then on the second start silght backfire. No luck.

Should I change the rectifier or starter relay next? I have been told that the rectifier will not do it, and i really dont think a relay has any influence especially considering the second battery test negates that whole circuit including the battey cable and the power connection at the end. Also if the rectifer were bad would I be able to ride it for hours after starting it if zapped the CDI with too many volts or AC current?

FYI stator is tight and at 0 deg, and key way is good. I have pictures Ill post at somepoint.


The new OEM Stator will be here next week. Unless anyone has any other ideas, I'm out.

 

[Matt_E]

You might try measuring the battery voltage while you are starting it. That's easy to rig up. All you need is a DMM with some alligator clips.

 

[Proformance1]

Matt, I just posted more while you were typing.

I installed two battery circuits one for the starter and one for the MSD. Thanks though that is a good idea and could be the problem sometimes just not this time.

 

[Matt_E]

I'm not familiar with EPIC's, but what is the general reason for backfires with these ignitions?

 

[Proformance1]

Well in this case Im having backfires with OEM CDI, MSD, and Epic. It just seems at this point that the Epic MAY backfire more often than the others, but the thermal condition of the stator was cold for the MSD tests and warm for the EPIC, therefore if the stator is the issue, it tested fine cold but must deteriorate at about 80F deg or higher.

From what I have been able to find out so far, the cranking speed, fuel, and spark all play into a backfire. Timing may be my issue also. I still need to pull out my timing light and TDC dial. I keep forgetting to do this.

An out of phase crank would do this also, or the timing firing early and the explosion pushes the motor backwards, insted of the normal forwards. This is why timing is so important to performance. Its the whole reason why anyone would want to buy a programmable ignition. There is power to be gained trust me, I have ridden it when it runs and its like adding 5-10% more power.

 

[WILKEY]

I got spark when I take my electrical box apart. If I put it back together and bolt it up no spark! Fml I'm bout over it to! Been in this fuxking garage since 4 it's now 12. Hopefully we both figure this out soon before it gets to darn cold!!

 

[Matt_E]

I apologize if I am asking questions you have already answered earlier.
It seems to me that the CDI isn't the problem if it's happening with all of them (CDI's).
I've seen backfires causes by RFI due to non-resistor wires/non-resistor caps/non-resistor plugs, but never on an OEM or MSD Enhancer CDI.
I think that leaves only the stator, flywheel, or flywheel key.
I assume that the flywheel matches the stator (62T/62T or 61X/61X) and that the key is good.
Have you replaced the stator with a known good unit?

 

[Proformance1]

Dont appologize i'll take all the help I can get!

New OEM coil tonight
Flywheel is a zero cut 62T from my 05 SJ
I removed TBM and installed 62T, wiped key way and reinstalled. never really inspected it but i did take this picture.

New OEM 62T stator is on the way

You bring up an interesting point. IS IT A 62T stator I bought it with a motor and never ran it. Can you tell by looking at this picture?

 

[Matt_E]

I can't tell by looking at the picture. Does it fit the flywheel very closely? (I.e., no big gap between coils and the flywheel magnets)
Do you have another stator to try?