WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Thunderstruck ! Counter to the Blunderjet thread
- Thread starter WFO Speedracer
- Start date
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
The nice thing about my builds is that I screw up just like everyone else does , what I don't do is gloss over it and pretend it never happened, instead I will show you how to fix it .
On the layup on the bottom rail there was a section that turned loose from the hull, maybe a two inch spot , it shows up a a wide spot in that first picture , now I could cut it out and re-glass it but in this area none of that is really necessary , needed or wanted .
I mixed up some epoxy and thickened it up with cabosil , instead of making it thick like peanut butter as I usually would I left it a little thinner so it could flow , using a popsicle stick I worked it down into the crack and then clamped it all up.
I used a piece of aluminum wrapped in parchment paper on the inside and a piece of wood on the outside edge to spread out the load , all of my clamps are at the shop so I used what I had available here , a pair of large vise grips , a pair of water pump pliers and a couple of zip ties to clamp it all up .
When that dries it won't ever come loose at that spot again I assure you , it will be just like Servicemaster, like it never even happened !
On the layup on the bottom rail there was a section that turned loose from the hull, maybe a two inch spot , it shows up a a wide spot in that first picture , now I could cut it out and re-glass it but in this area none of that is really necessary , needed or wanted .
I mixed up some epoxy and thickened it up with cabosil , instead of making it thick like peanut butter as I usually would I left it a little thinner so it could flow , using a popsicle stick I worked it down into the crack and then clamped it all up.
I used a piece of aluminum wrapped in parchment paper on the inside and a piece of wood on the outside edge to spread out the load , all of my clamps are at the shop so I used what I had available here , a pair of large vise grips , a pair of water pump pliers and a couple of zip ties to clamp it all up .
When that dries it won't ever come loose at that spot again I assure you , it will be just like Servicemaster, like it never even happened !
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WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Another test fit this morning and it is looking really good , I had to take the spreader out to get it back together which IMO is a good thing , it means I hit my mark.
Gaps look pretty good and consistent , I can't see me adding any more glass at this point, you can see in those first two pics how far it pulls together in the middle , it's not perfect but it will all clamp up and go together just fine now without 1/4" of glue . But now you can see why I want to make pieces to spread out the clamping force .
Considering the point where I started at I am calling this one a win.
Just out of curiosity I measured the total thickness of the bond rail on the 300SX and I came up with about 4.5 MM , granted the SMC on a 300SX is a little on the thin side , total thickness on this is bond rail is averaging 8.5MM , we should be good to go, on to the next part of the project.
Gaps look pretty good and consistent , I can't see me adding any more glass at this point, you can see in those first two pics how far it pulls together in the middle , it's not perfect but it will all clamp up and go together just fine now without 1/4" of glue . But now you can see why I want to make pieces to spread out the clamping force .
Considering the point where I started at I am calling this one a win.
Just out of curiosity I measured the total thickness of the bond rail on the 300SX and I came up with about 4.5 MM , granted the SMC on a 300SX is a little on the thin side , total thickness on this is bond rail is averaging 8.5MM , we should be good to go, on to the next part of the project.
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WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
I retrieved the bucket of clamps, maybe I have enough, but we are not there yet
. Where I am at is getting the drivesahft, pump and engine placement sorted and nailed down, a 550SX shaft might work but I am pretty sure I don't have one , an X2 driveshaft could be made to work and I have one I can use for mockup but pretty sure I no longer have a spare one.
I also have a whole tote of stuff missing, it has the cooling lines, steering cable run and I scupper one way valve in it so yeah I need to find that.
I can find the lengths and bearing - seal surface location on most of the standup shafts but the sitdowns are a little more elusive as far as specs go , most of the shafts I have are from sitdowns so I may strike out and have to buy a 550SX shaft, we will see.
. Where I am at is getting the drivesahft, pump and engine placement sorted and nailed down, a 550SX shaft might work but I am pretty sure I don't have one , an X2 driveshaft could be made to work and I have one I can use for mockup but pretty sure I no longer have a spare one.
I also have a whole tote of stuff missing, it has the cooling lines, steering cable run and I scupper one way valve in it so yeah I need to find that.
I can find the lengths and bearing - seal surface location on most of the standup shafts but the sitdowns are a little more elusive as far as specs go , most of the shafts I have are from sitdowns so I may strike out and have to buy a 550SX shaft, we will see.
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WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
None of the driveshafts I have will work , surprise , surprise !
After doing enough math to make my head hurt I have determined a 550SX shaft will work , with modifications of course because nothing can be simple on this build.
I am stuck with a few of the design quirks on this ski that are causing issues , the integrated engine mount plate and bulkhead is the main one , using a Kawasaki driveline is the other issue, I am limited by driveshaft specs as to what I can and can't do here , if you get the bearing housing and seal surface on the driveshaft lined up then there is not enough distance between the bulkhead and the engine , if you use a shorter shaft then the engine and pipe hit the top of the hull.,
Also I want to use the stock aluminum bedplate , just because , it's here , it's damn near bulletproof and it's aluminum, what's not to like ?
So I am just going to do some more cutting and throw this back into the composites arena where I am quite comfortable, I know without a doubt I can glass it back up and make it work , that is a pretty much a given .
Putting engine bedplates in backwards , cutting and modding the bedplate ,engine adaptor and slotting mounting holes seems like way too much extra hassle to me versus cutting , glassing and gelcoating , all of those a well within my comfort zone .
It looks to me like one cut with a Sawzall solves most of my issues here. I am cutting it where the tape is laid off on the bottom and separating the bulkhead and the engine mount, that way they can be mounted up wherever they need to be to fit the driveshaft specs, you know just like on any other build lol..
This puts the engine a little farther forward than I would like but at this point it has to go where it has to go.
My biggest issue is I know this thing has been hacked to death , I just want it put back together and finished out so that you can't tell it didn't come that way from the factory that way , yeah I know when you are looking at this it seems like a tall order.
After doing enough math to make my head hurt I have determined a 550SX shaft will work , with modifications of course because nothing can be simple on this build.
I am stuck with a few of the design quirks on this ski that are causing issues , the integrated engine mount plate and bulkhead is the main one , using a Kawasaki driveline is the other issue, I am limited by driveshaft specs as to what I can and can't do here , if you get the bearing housing and seal surface on the driveshaft lined up then there is not enough distance between the bulkhead and the engine , if you use a shorter shaft then the engine and pipe hit the top of the hull.,
Also I want to use the stock aluminum bedplate , just because , it's here , it's damn near bulletproof and it's aluminum, what's not to like ?
So I am just going to do some more cutting and throw this back into the composites arena where I am quite comfortable, I know without a doubt I can glass it back up and make it work , that is a pretty much a given .
Putting engine bedplates in backwards , cutting and modding the bedplate ,engine adaptor and slotting mounting holes seems like way too much extra hassle to me versus cutting , glassing and gelcoating , all of those a well within my comfort zone .
It looks to me like one cut with a Sawzall solves most of my issues here. I am cutting it where the tape is laid off on the bottom and separating the bulkhead and the engine mount, that way they can be mounted up wherever they need to be to fit the driveshaft specs, you know just like on any other build lol..
This puts the engine a little farther forward than I would like but at this point it has to go where it has to go.
My biggest issue is I know this thing has been hacked to death , I just want it put back together and finished out so that you can't tell it didn't come that way from the factory that way , yeah I know when you are looking at this it seems like a tall order.
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Myself
manic mechanic
- Location
- Twin Lakes AR
The motor mounts are on the same plane front to rear.......why not just shave that area down by 1/4"......then add a long strip of stainless 1/4" thick. BAM.....multiple mounting locations just by drilling and tapping holes.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
The cut has been made and I feel good about it , there is no going back now.
I had a piece of fiberglass dowel rod laying around , God only knows where it came from , I shaved the end down a bit to fully seat in the impeller, temporarily installed the pump and measured up the rod to 20.25 " , that is where the center of the bearing surface is on a 550SX driveshaft .
I figured in the rest of my measurements and what you see is basically where it will sit , I can move it 1/2" backyard or forward by reversing the adaptor plate and there is some back and forth movement in the mounting holes because they have been slotted already . AS you can see by the gap between the two pieces it wasn't going to work without doing this .
This is as close as I can get till I get a driveshaft in hand to do a real mockup , so far I am working off of measurements from Myself and from threads on PWCT.
So the measurements you see there are how far rearward from stock it will sit, most likely I am going with the 3" setback , which should shift a significant amount of weight to the rear . lighten the nose and make it not plow anymore.
I had a piece of fiberglass dowel rod laying around , God only knows where it came from , I shaved the end down a bit to fully seat in the impeller, temporarily installed the pump and measured up the rod to 20.25 " , that is where the center of the bearing surface is on a 550SX driveshaft .
I figured in the rest of my measurements and what you see is basically where it will sit , I can move it 1/2" backyard or forward by reversing the adaptor plate and there is some back and forth movement in the mounting holes because they have been slotted already . AS you can see by the gap between the two pieces it wasn't going to work without doing this .
This is as close as I can get till I get a driveshaft in hand to do a real mockup , so far I am working off of measurements from Myself and from threads on PWCT.
So the measurements you see there are how far rearward from stock it will sit, most likely I am going with the 3" setback , which should shift a significant amount of weight to the rear . lighten the nose and make it not plow anymore.
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WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Are you talking about like I did on the 300SX , if so then the bedplate would have to be cut way down somewhere and I don't have those types of machining capabilities , fiberglass , epoxy , gelcoat I can handle , all day long !
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Myself
manic mechanic
- Location
- Twin Lakes AR
Yes, that looks like what I was thinking.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
If I was using the stock bedplate or the Ocean Pro bedplate I have I would consider that , thrufully I am too far in the race to switch horses now , I am gonna have to run what I brung.
If we are being totally honest here the correct way to do this would have been to build another engine cradle from scratch to fit the 750 engine , I don't even what to contemplate that option though , I have enough headaches here already .
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
I made a few more cuts and cut out those two pieces in the first pic , because at this point why not ?
Then I cut the dowel rod to length 28" which is the length of a 550SX shaft plus 3/4" that the coupler protrudes forward from the end of the threads , then I mocked it all back up , this is within 1/2" or so where everything will sit , I have good pipe clearance , the pipe lines up with the waterbox nicely .
The filler spout on the tank and the fuel filler line up pretty nicely , with a couple of silicone L's and an aluminum pipe I can make that happen, there is a large flat spot on the firewall where I can mount the elect box or it can go beside the fuel tank.
The driveshaft angle looks pretty good , engine placement looks good and now I have enough space between the pipe and firewall to put the primer back in place.
I am pretty happy with this placement so far , it looks well thought out and plenty of room to get to everything.
Then I cut the dowel rod to length 28" which is the length of a 550SX shaft plus 3/4" that the coupler protrudes forward from the end of the threads , then I mocked it all back up , this is within 1/2" or so where everything will sit , I have good pipe clearance , the pipe lines up with the waterbox nicely .
The filler spout on the tank and the fuel filler line up pretty nicely , with a couple of silicone L's and an aluminum pipe I can make that happen, there is a large flat spot on the firewall where I can mount the elect box or it can go beside the fuel tank.
The driveshaft angle looks pretty good , engine placement looks good and now I have enough space between the pipe and firewall to put the primer back in place.
I am pretty happy with this placement so far , it looks well thought out and plenty of room to get to everything.
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WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Today I have it flipped the ski back over and I am working on the bottom again , I am at the point where I need to finalize the placement on the pump , intake grate and the ride plate before we worry about the bulkhead going in.
There is probably a couple of days work that has to be done inside of that pump tunnel to ready it for gelcoat. As you can see we have some funkiness going on at the top right corner of the ride plate in the second pic. It just means more grinding, glassing and filling , no biggie for a stepper.
The main worry I have is the driveshaft angle and centering, that has to be really close to work correctly .
This is an old 550 ride plate I cut and sectioned both ways , when I worked at the welding shop I put it back together with a spool gun , I cut the mounting tabs off and cut a grrove in the hull so it would fit flush .
I am only using it as the plug for a mold , it really doesn't fit the shape of the hull and I am having to grind it to fit , luckily it's hell thick so there is plenty there to grind.
I also have to figure out a way to mount the ride plate up , I am a big fan of the way they mount a Waveraider plate to the hull with the brass pieces , but I don't know if I can use those pieces here or not yet, I do have a couple of old Raider hulls to get the brass pieces off of so as always we will see what we will see .
If they won't work I am going to bury some brass stock in there and glass it in to mount the plate with.
The intake grate is a new Solas toploader , it looks like the rear thickness will have to be machine d down and I had to take a slight amount off the ends of the wings to get it in there.
There is probably a couple of days work that has to be done inside of that pump tunnel to ready it for gelcoat. As you can see we have some funkiness going on at the top right corner of the ride plate in the second pic. It just means more grinding, glassing and filling , no biggie for a stepper.
The main worry I have is the driveshaft angle and centering, that has to be really close to work correctly .
This is an old 550 ride plate I cut and sectioned both ways , when I worked at the welding shop I put it back together with a spool gun , I cut the mounting tabs off and cut a grrove in the hull so it would fit flush .
I am only using it as the plug for a mold , it really doesn't fit the shape of the hull and I am having to grind it to fit , luckily it's hell thick so there is plenty there to grind.
I also have to figure out a way to mount the ride plate up , I am a big fan of the way they mount a Waveraider plate to the hull with the brass pieces , but I don't know if I can use those pieces here or not yet, I do have a couple of old Raider hulls to get the brass pieces off of so as always we will see what we will see .
If they won't work I am going to bury some brass stock in there and glass it in to mount the plate with.
The intake grate is a new Solas toploader , it looks like the rear thickness will have to be machine d down and I had to take a slight amount off the ends of the wings to get it in there.
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Myself
manic mechanic
- Location
- Twin Lakes AR
On that conversion ski I just did, I had to relieve the edges of the wing as well.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Yes on this one probably 3/16' is going to have to go to get it lined up plus you have to maintain the curvature in the chine , I am seriously considering knocking it way down with a grinding wheel then building it back up with epoxy fairing compound, it is just going to be a plug after all.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
I did the Christmas thing on Christmas eve and Christmas day, Early Christmas morning I started getting sick , also we had a lot of rain and nasty weather , so after three days on the couch I am back at it but still not 100%.
Not much to see in the photos , all of these pumps have pump shoes, they don't really do a lot and none actually fit the 650 tunnel without a ton of grinding, I decided to forgo all of that nonsense and just do it all in composites , if there is an issue later I will silicone it in , so no pump shoe on this one , it does mean the composite work will have to be a lot closer than usual.
It also means filling in all the areas where the pump shoe fits on the sides of the tunnel , I didn't count the layers but it's way up there and I used Cabosil in the epoxy mix to build thickness a lot faster.
I also laid in some glass at the top of the tunnel where it meets the pump to get a better transition , about 8 layers there so far , while I was at it I rebuilt the rear mounting tabs for the pump and set the pump back in with parchment paper to hopefully cut down on the sanding and grinding .
The other advantage of adding the Cabosil is basically no air pockets or bubbles to deal with, it is much harder to wet out the fiberglass with it though.
This one is going to be a little tricky because the thickness of the gelcoat has to be factored in , this intake tunnel has a long, long way to go till I can call it good.
Not much to see in the photos , all of these pumps have pump shoes, they don't really do a lot and none actually fit the 650 tunnel without a ton of grinding, I decided to forgo all of that nonsense and just do it all in composites , if there is an issue later I will silicone it in , so no pump shoe on this one , it does mean the composite work will have to be a lot closer than usual.
It also means filling in all the areas where the pump shoe fits on the sides of the tunnel , I didn't count the layers but it's way up there and I used Cabosil in the epoxy mix to build thickness a lot faster.
I also laid in some glass at the top of the tunnel where it meets the pump to get a better transition , about 8 layers there so far , while I was at it I rebuilt the rear mounting tabs for the pump and set the pump back in with parchment paper to hopefully cut down on the sanding and grinding .
The other advantage of adding the Cabosil is basically no air pockets or bubbles to deal with, it is much harder to wet out the fiberglass with it though.
This one is going to be a little tricky because the thickness of the gelcoat has to be factored in , this intake tunnel has a long, long way to go till I can call it good.
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WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Sorry I misunderstood you ,after rereading this I can see now you were talking about the toploader.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Pump tunnel is still looking really rough , also it is still very low in a few places , so round two of glassing , this time another four layers on the sides and the top of the tunnel but with much heavier weight glass and more Cabosil , I had a bit of Cabosil left over with a bunch of heavy glass fibers mixed in it, I used that to extend the front mounting tab.
I still had some left over so I mixed in more Cabosil and then some fairing compound , so it's an in between, much easier to sand than Cabosil but much stronger than fairing compound by itself , I coated all the surfaces where the pump seal meets the hull . wrapped the pump with parchment paper and masking tape and dropped it back into place to cure
I located a driveshaft on Ebay and it is now on the way here , hopefully I will have this tunnel at least roughed in and the pump bolted into place by the time it arrives.
I still had some left over so I mixed in more Cabosil and then some fairing compound , so it's an in between, much easier to sand than Cabosil but much stronger than fairing compound by itself , I coated all the surfaces where the pump seal meets the hull . wrapped the pump with parchment paper and masking tape and dropped it back into place to cure
I located a driveshaft on Ebay and it is now on the way here , hopefully I will have this tunnel at least roughed in and the pump bolted into place by the time it arrives.
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Myself
manic mechanic
- Location
- Twin Lakes AR
That's gonna be a nice tight pump fit!
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Without using a pump shoe or silicone it has to be a tight fit.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
I pulled the pump , trimmed off the nastiness with a razor knife and started sanding, to get the front pump lip right I removed the rubber pump seal and watched the gaps between the hull and pump.
I think we are there but before I get carried away I need to get a new pump seal and install it compressing the seal against the hull to see how much fairing I have left to do to get the tunnel and pump transition perfect , this old seal has to be compressed like crazy and if I fit it with this seal in all likelihood the pump will not fit in there with a new pump seal installed.
The final filling and fitting is going to be done with gelcoat , a total b^%$h to sand but very stable and when it's done it's done.
Those two sections at the top are still a bit low and have to be filled some more, when I do that all of those gaps will also disappear.
I think we are there but before I get carried away I need to get a new pump seal and install it compressing the seal against the hull to see how much fairing I have left to do to get the tunnel and pump transition perfect , this old seal has to be compressed like crazy and if I fit it with this seal in all likelihood the pump will not fit in there with a new pump seal installed.
The final filling and fitting is going to be done with gelcoat , a total b^%$h to sand but very stable and when it's done it's done.
Those two sections at the top are still a bit low and have to be filled some more, when I do that all of those gaps will also disappear.
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