TNT pipes

[ATS_Aaron]

I bought one of these:

http://www.land-and-sea.com/pwc-dyno/pwc-dyno.htm

Ours is older, MUCH older. The "computer" is a 4 button LCD 2 line display and the printer is thermal and takes about 3 minutes to print out a text file of one 15 second run...but I think we can adapt it to a real computer and use excel to make graphs if I can find someone with knowledge of serial port communication protocol. Also our torque arm is longer so it will not fit up in the hull like the one shown on the Polaris in the photo. So we made a decision to make our dyno fit an engine stand instead of a hull...well that isn't 100% true. We used a beat up SN hull as our engine stand. We put it on a cart and cut the back half of it off. We also removed most of the top deck.

We rebuilt the dyno with new bearings and tested the water flow at the shop (we will have about 180hp capacity), but that is about as far as we have gotten. Hopefully after our MR2 shop open house this weekend and the 24 Hours of Lemons race in October we will have time to play with jet ski tuning on a dyno.

Aaron

 

[tntsuperjet]

For the record, high comp and TNT pipe
here is my concerns, I can't go on public forum and advise people to do risky setups, it's very important to me to advice people of the safe ways to run my pipe, if you choose to push the limits, then it's just that your choice and if you hurt your motor your not likely to point finger at me saying your pipe blew up my engine!
But if you have 3 transition hole 44 carbs, lean mid jetting high compression with advanced timing and bolt on a TNT pipe your gonna go boom!
Last thing I ever want to hear is your pipe blew upmy 3,000 or more engine!

So you have my designed peramiters
but I will admit on my boats I don't practice what I preach!
I am out of town for few days, when I get cought up I will gather all the pictures label them and post them in the thread.

 

[masterblaster]

as far as new builds go I dont think you will be seeing that many big bore 85 mill flat tops being made from stock cylinders with the cost of buying,installing northwest sleeves or the like and porting,considering what the final product will look like and be able to produce power wise on a stock crank...at least compared to what the new 7 port billet pv cylinders are capable of,not to mention bling.No one here will admit it but there are many a tnt out there on skis on the bling factor alone. Some stock cylinders might get made up for the stroker cranks that are out there that will be close on overall performance but thats not a true comparison to stock stroke BB stuff.

aaron...nice to see someone else making the effort with the dyno,Seems like car guys that use a dyno alot see the most benifeit in them,looks like a nice build on the mr2.I build supras and have them on the dyno all the time.we would be nowhere without them. I see wsu ,one of the dasa guys talking about finally getting a dyno and doing some testing and comparisons also..............about dang time for real.

 

[Scorn800]

Putting a motor on dyno and getting dyno HP & torque #'s is good to help tuning but that's about it. All the HP & torque #'s change once that motor is out on water in a ski. Putting the power to the water using the right pump, prop, nozzle combo is more important than dyno numbers. You could have the best motor in the world but if the boat is not hooking up or is spinning the prop it all means nothing.

 

[Don 79 TA]

I stated that Paul at LPW could be helpful because he has had success w/TNT's on motors and Tim says they are NOT desigined for. I also made a comment about using Paul's dyno. (I should have left the dyno comment out due to history).

Paul has built alot of motors that screamed off the bottom all the way to the top w/high comp, alot of timing with Tim's chambers!!! He could very well be instrumental in this project.

Tim-if u would like to talk to Paul about his setup for TNT's, email me and I can get u in touch with him. gilwilliams101@yahoo.com

Several people know that the TNT did not work for me and it is because I did NOT follow Paul's directions completely. If I had-who knows. I know I have ridden some of Pauls setups with TNTs that were awesome-so he DOES know how to make them work!

you are absolutely right... I have ridden some of the skis he has had with the pipes, and has various tuning experience across the board with them

Tim mentioned about the lower compression and how his pipe made it feel like it was a higher compression (at least that is what i interpreted from the message). so just wondering if that means higher octane was needed?? i've been thinking about other setups and getting away from the race gas, but it's the super crisp response (that you get from compression) that i need, especially with my weight. comps around 210-225 are like a sweet spot for me.

i can still see a market for the SXR as well.

 

[Big Kahuna]

you are absolutely right... I have ridden some of the skis he has had with the pipes, and has various tuning experience across the board with them

Tim mentioned about the lower compression and how his pipe made it feel like it was a higher compression (at least that is what i interpreted from the message). so just wondering if that means higher octane was needed?? i've been thinking about other setups and getting away from the race gas, but it's the super crisp response (that you get from compression) that i need, especially with my weight. comps around 210-225 are like a sweet spot for me.

i can still see a market for the SXR as well.

I think he was meaning the pipe made the motor feel like you had higher compression ie more hit like higher compression gives you.

 

[masterblaster]

Putting a motor on dyno and getting dyno HP & torque #'s is good to help tuning but that's about it. All the HP & torque #'s change once that motor is out on water in a ski. Putting the power to the water using the right pump, prop, nozzle combo is more important than dyno numbers. You could have the best motor in the world but if the boat is not hooking up or is spinning the prop it all means nothing.

no different than than figuring out the drivetrain and suspension on a car to hook good 60 ft times after it is dyno tuned. We are talking motor power here,nothing else.it all starts with hp,the pump is a secondary issue,how many pump builders are there again? If you can fig how to make hp,the curve will help show you the pitch prop to at least start with in a attempt to use the power band closer to your intended ride assuming the motor build was purpose built as well

 

[CARBONX2]

We need tq and hp curves from 3k-rpm up to see the picture for freestyle applications

 

[SuperJETT]

I just want to see a comparison from a TNT to a Powerfactor to a B mod and ltd and I'll be completely satisfied.

Maybe one of these days the X will just buy one of each engine package available and one of each hull, take them to a freeride and let people mix/match to see what they like. Anyone got $250K to donate?

 

[GIL]

I just want to see a comparison from a TNT to a Powerfactor to a B mod and ltd and I'll be completely satisfied.

Maybe one of these days the X will just buy one of each engine package available and one of each hull, take them to a freeride and let people mix/match to see what they like. Anyone got $250K to donate?

Darrin-we could challenge the hull, engine, pipe, carb builders that frequent this site to a test and tune freeride. If u r present at the freeride u r allowed to voice your opinion on the X, and if not-STFU. lol Like that would ever happen. I still say the best thing that could ever happen would be everyone under one roof working towards the same common goal. lol
Like that would ever happen either.

This year I had the pleasure of riding some skis with pipe ABC in them and in some skis it was awesome and others it sucked. The engines that had these ABC pipes on them were engines by different builders. What if all the builders and pipe guys had the same common goal and helped each other? It's a 'pipe dream' I know.

 

[masterblaster]

not so much the competitors working together,thats funny though but more along the lines of finding out whats the better build and making changes in the future towards that goal,makes no diff competitors have bought other builders stuff in a effort to makes theirs better before. At least this way everyone knows whats making power,whos skeered to show and whos not. dyno = much fun,much learned and really ramps up competition

 

[tom21]

as far as new builds go I dont think you will be seeing that many big bore 85 mill flat tops being made from stock cylinders with the cost of buying,installing northwest sleeves or the like and porting,considering what the final product will look like and be able to produce power wise on a stock crank..

are you sure about this? I think this is about the ceiling for guys with limited budgets. I did a bigbore flat top a few seasons ago and at the time I was a little leary about aftermarket cylinders, some were never gonna be in my price range and the ones that were close were having some issues. for a grand I had the parts and just needed some machining to get my stock cylinder setup. now there are a few more options and even more parts available to bump up the power.

I also have a 5mm motor waiting for a few parts and then I will have another beginners level built motor. unless I win lotto a new stroker/pv motor will always be way out of my range. I don't know anybody in my ride group that can afford an 8K motor either. but I am sure if faced with a motor rebuild that a bigbore or used stroker crank would be a stretch but a few could do it.

anyway, tntsuperjet- thanks for posting up the info. its always nice to hear it from the horses mouth. Im glad that standups are still a part-time hobby/passion for you.

 

[tomski]

Here's another. With updated bracket.

 

[tntsuperjet]

Guys, let's try and keep this post to what this post is. It's about pipes, not how to unite the world of engine builders.
You guys want great pipe.
Well here is a chance to help make that happen.
I want to hear what people want from a pipe!
What some of you are expecting from a pipe.

Here is your chance to be heard by guy who is actually going to build something.
Not a middle man, not sales man that's trying to sell you the next thing to sliced bread.

So let's get on track before I loose interest in trying to help

 

[tom21]

I think its always the same in any sport, we want all the power we can afford. some can afford more some less.

you make a custom part- what about small(stock), medium(big bore) and large displacement? keep it simple- lol if that is even possible.

 

[WaveDemon]

Guys, let's try and keep this post to what this post is. It's about pipes, not how to unite the world of engine builders.
You guys want great pipe.
Well here is a chance to help make that happen.
I want to hear what people want from a pipe!
What some of you are expecting from a pipe.

Here is your chance to be heard by guy who is actually going to build something.
Not a middle man, not sales man that's trying to sell you the next thing to sliced bread.

So let's get on track before I loose interest in trying to help

what is a pipe capable of? what are we missing in pipes currently available. most people here run a limited motor, set up for low-mid end. a few people have a mod motor built for the same power range.

I'd bet 2/3 ~ 3/4+ of people here are running stock bore with no porting and as many bolt ons as they can afford.

 

[Scorn800]

I have Blaster limited which I plan to start racing in sport spec. I want your chamber for a strong limited to help give me more rpms. I've seen you old style chamber on a 09 sj stock spec ski. So I know some tuners have found ways to make in work on a non ported motor. I've seen Scottie Mac & Godocgo asking questions on pwctoday. They also race sport spec. All the racers I know have the cash to buy your pipes.
By the way, sorry to post off topic crap in your thread.

 

[godocgo]

top 2 sport spec blasters were running tnt chambers : )

 

[MADMAT]

Seems to me a new chamber would basically just have to do what a B pipe does.....work.... and work with many setups 650 to 865 clearly. And it would have to provide at least 20% additional arm soreness....seems real simple....other than actually making it happen. FPP apparently can't do it so......

 

[SuperJETT]

The TNT is for people that want to go the extra mile on a package and for that, it's well worth it, plus a little bling never hurt anyone either. For the people that don't want to go the extra mile, then I'm not sure why you're posting on this thread because you are not the target demographic.

This chamber is not one to replace the B mod/ltd for the masses.