TNT pipes

[tntsuperjet]

The current pipe works very well on stock bore motor.
I welcome pipe shoot out in limited form any day.
We have won many championships with our pipes over the years and looks like people still are.
What does pipe have to do.
In my mind has to be (pardon my French ) idiot proof.
Only way you can please everyone is bolt it on with everything possible wrong with a ski and still go faster without changing a thing.
But I can't do that, what I have been able to do is test many setups And build great all around pipe that is very tunable to allow for all the variables.
31 world championships in 11yrs says it works.
But it can be better, props and carbs and motors are better now I need to make a better pipe!

 

[MADMAT]

You no doubt have some very cool chit to choose from and play with these days!

Man someone photoshop one on to a WDK 1200 cylinder! And a X865!

Come on! Eye candy!

 

[Don 79 TA]

Tim... thanks for taking iniative for doing this, and for taking the next step and updating your older design to improve it

i think if you design something for the SXR (i know i keep pushing this, but i see a market there), and something that the newer style strokers/big bores (5mil DASA/X-scream 865) are like now for the SJ, i think that could suffice for many, especially if i can get the same type or response/pop that my setup has now, but on pump gas and be freerider typical friendly, should have a market for that, just what i think would be good to get out there...

 

[tntsuperjet]

I think it's very interesting how some people think the TNT pipe looks good and others say it's butt ugly armadillo

 

[masterblaster]

I think it's very interesting how some people think the TNT pipe looks good and others say it's butt ugly armadillo

as far as that goes,can you make a pipe thats shaped like the limited sj pipe and lay in the ski the same way,hit harder down low and mid range from a 701 to mid 800 cc setups? More racers are over at pwc today,and it seems you already have pipes they are happy with.most of them already have old school bad azz motors they race.Freeriders and freestylers are the new school guys with these new motors. they are built nothing like the race motors,most use enhansers and lite flywheel,have WAY lower transfer and exh durations designed to just hit off the bottom.

tom21,the cylinder kits we are talking about cost less than 3k,the bigbore kits in stock cylinders dont make sense to build anymore if you wana stay with a stock crank,the power they make isnt even comparable,strokers are where things get expensive.

 

[GIL]

Tim-straight up no BS post from me (for once) lol

Baxter was claiming either 20hp more or 20% more Hp ---I honestly can't remember which, WITH a price tag of 1300.00 to 1500.00 (depending when and where u bought it) and there is only a handful of them on the X
members skis because of the price tag and limited room left for fuel tank.

Is where I am going with this is-WE ALL ALWAYS WANT MORE MORE MORE. Who don't. Not all of us can afford more. I am very fortunate to have a bigbore stroker with all the right parts in my ski and I am NOT the majority. If u can show me that a new chamber adds a bunch of HP/torque, I will probaly go whore myself out to buy yet another chamber to obtain the ultimate brapness.

Most of us here could care less how many RPMs we can pull, we want it all and we want it now-the sec the throttle plates crack open-we expect the world to shake.

Hope this helps.
Gil Williams
39 yo AM freestyle competitor in reg 7(and I suck) lol

 

[Don 79 TA]

i'll second what Gil says...

i know myself... i don't care about screaming RPMs
RPM(RuinsPeoplesMotors) lol

give that 1-2 hit still have some mid, and that 5-8 second WOT..... that could work

I hardly ever go WOT... very rarely to feel "what it's got" and everytime i do it... i think man thats gonna F'n hurt if i fall

by WOT i mean cruising at plane on a speed, not whacking it open or starting off

perhaps i am different then many because i run a real steep prop, so all i need is 1/4 throttle (again alot of compression too)

 

[GIL]

i'll second what Gil says...

i know myself... i don't care about screaming RPMs
RPM(RuinsPeoplesMotors) lol

give that 1-2 hit still have some mid, and that 5-8 second WOT..... that could work

I hardly ever go WOT... very rarely to feel "what it's got" and everytime i do it... i think man thats gonna F'n hurt if i fall

by WOT i mean cruising at plane on a speed, not whacking it open or starting off

perhaps i am different then many because i run a real steep prop, so all i need is 1/4 throttle (again alot of compression too)

Yeah, I am at 218psi, 35* static, Hooker 9/15, 85mm exit nozzle w/wetwolfe stubby, straight pull Virgin trim, BlackJack 46s, Dominator w/angled plate, VF2's oem h2o box, frt and rear ex, FCV w/2mm rest after that, B limited. I really don't think there is much more to be had out of my motor. Would love to be proven wrong tho!!! And my MAX WOT is 3 seconds and thats rare.

 

[tntsuperjet]

With 9/14 prop I don't see the pump loading till 56-5800rpm, ibwould think you need brutal mid to make the boat thunder when u grip it.
Once the boat is on plane bottom end is over, mid and top is in.
Not free rev for speed but 4500-7100 rpm is where you would make killer power to flat water back flip.
If you boat gets on plane slow you need bottom, if your boat is on plane and you want your arms to pull off when you grip it ask for mid.
But what you don't want is to loose all your low end for mid!
Dyno numbers show me the Baxter pipe is way down on bottom end from B chamber.
But stronger at 5800 up!
My personal thoughts ( just my exp)
you want a pipe that will match or better the B pipe from 2500-4300
but be much stronger from 4300-7500
that would make the boat leap out of water.

 

[tom21]

you want a pipe that will match or better the B pipe from 2500-4300
but be much stronger from 4300-7500
that would make the boat leap out of water.

YES! I like the sound of that.

 

[CARBONX2]

Guys, let's try and keep this post to what this post is. It's about pipes, not how to unite the world of engine builders.
You guys want great pipe.
Well here is a chance to help make that happen.
I want to hear what people want from a pipe!
What some of you are expecting from a pipe.

Here is your chance to be heard by guy who is actually going to build something.
Not a middle man, not sales man that's trying to sell you the next thing to sliced bread.

So let's get on track before I loose interest in trying to help

Freestyle drypipe chamber to fit the b-pipe!!!

 

[OCD Solutions]

you want a pipe that will match or better the B pipe from 2500-4300
but be much stronger from 4300-7500
that would make the boat leap out of water.

It took us a long time to get here but in a nutshell, Yes! That would be awesome.

 

[GIL]

With 9/14 prop I don't see the pump loading till 56-5800rpm, ibwould think you need brutal mid to make the boat thunder when u grip it.
Once the boat is on plane bottom end is over, mid and top is in.
Not free rev for speed but 4500-7100 rpm is where you would make killer power to flat water back flip.
If you boat gets on plane slow you need bottom, if your boat is on plane and you want your arms to pull off when you grip it ask for mid.
But what you don't want is to loose all your low end for mid!
Dyno numbers show me the Baxter pipe is way down on bottom end from B chamber.
But stronger at 5800 up!
My personal thoughts ( just my exp)
you want a pipe that will match or better the B pipe from 2500-4300
but be much stronger from 4300-7500
that would make the boat leap out of water.

Sounds like I need to play with a tach to educate myself. What u are saying actually makes alot of sense. Also sounds like Art's way of thinking.

 

[tntsuperjet]

My SN with a 81mm nozzle 15/19 prop is at 5200rpm once on plane
no matter how hard I try if the boat doesn't go over 5000 rpm the boat won't plane

 

[SuperJETT]

Here's an honest question that has been nagging me: Aren't you race-oriented? Race skis have quite different porting/pump setup/etc from what freestyle requires, even down to the carbs used. Extra rpms on top mean very little to me. Part of what makes me think that is your SN with an 81mm nozzle. Stock is 83 and most of us bore up to ~85mm, not go down to an 81. Also, a good portion of my riding is not even on plane.

I've ridden quite a few skis with race ported Lamey engines that do ok for freestyle, but when you get on one that is specifically ported for freestyle, watch out.

 

[MADMAT]

Yea I don't even plane out......I just ride around nose up prowling.....

 

[masterblaster]

Here's an honest question that has been nagging me: Aren't you race-oriented? Race skis have quite different porting/pump setup/etc from what freestyle requires, even down to the carbs used. Extra rpms on top mean very little to me. Part of what makes me think that is your SN with an 81mm nozzle. Stock is 83 and most of us bore up to ~85mm, not go down to an 81. Also, a good portion of my riding is not even on plane.

I've ridden quite a few skis with race ported Lamey engines that do ok for freestyle, but when you get on one that is specifically ported for freestyle, watch out.

this what I was talking about above,all these new motors out have way diff everything,from the motors these pipes were tested with last in the mid 90s.
Transfer and exh duration,porting,ign timing,fuel,pumps,props,nozzles.
Even us surf riders are just hardly on plane before a wave with alot of tricks,reintry are last sec explosive tricks.and with 85 mil nozzles we are not tooling around in high rpms.
Strokers are already jumpin out of the water off idle,they need pipes for more of the low side of midrange.
Ported 701s and some weaker BB are the only setups that really need pipes with more off idle low end.

 

[GIL]

Here's an honest question that has been nagging me: Aren't you race-oriented? Race skis have quite different porting/pump setup/etc from what freestyle requires, even down to the carbs used. Extra rpms on top mean very little to me. Part of what makes me think that is your SN with an 81mm nozzle. Stock is 83 and most of us bore up to ~85mm, not go down to an 81. Also, a good portion of my riding is not even on plane.

I've ridden quite a few skis with race ported Lamey engines that do ok for freestyle, but when you get on one that is specifically ported for freestyle, watch out.

Ditto-the only time I am planed out is gettin back to my setup wake.

 

[tntsuperjet]

Here's an honest question that has been nagging me: Aren't you race-oriented? Race skis have quite different porting/pump setup/etc from what freestyle requires, even down to the carbs used. Extra rpms on top mean very little to me. Part of what makes me think that is your SN with an 81mm nozzle. Stock is 83 and most of us bore up to ~85mm, not go down to an 81. Also, a good portion of my riding is not even on plane.

I've ridden quite a few skis with race ported Lamey engines that do ok for freestyle, but when you get on one that is specifically ported for freestyle, watch out.

guess you don't know much about my history.
I was pioneer of many freestyle tricks.
And was the first one to bring in a full blown mod to big air frestyle tricks.
1989 world freestyle champion

 

[tntsuperjet]

Finished in top five in freestyle 3 yrs in row.
Then quit because tired of politics.
Most think Rick Roy was first to do backflips.
But hr was fist to do it in ijsba.
But not first in comp, they say my silverstrand hotwater tour didn't count because I rode put on my knees!

But to answer your question, I know what it takes to back flip, I also know the difference in race boat and free ride boat.
But my free style boat was twin carb reed cylinder 550 with total loss back in early days.
And my SN was injected 5mm stroker!