TPE-964 Engine?

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xXx Octane xXx

xXx Octane xXx

X
Location
Minnesota
I bought the first +4mm (1021cc) version of this motor and I was so impressed with it that I had Erik build me a second 1021cc for another build less than three months later. You would have a very difficult time trying to convince me that there is a better motor option out there at this level of performance and price point. My next build will also be powered by TPE.
 
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ISeeWetPeople

ISeeWetPeople

Location
Finland
Of all my hobbies this is the most expensive one=) thats why i have few rules to myself
one of them is this.. i never run more than 4sec on full gas with my freestyle ski. i can´t afford to blow my engines.. i know that this 4sec is very small but it usually keeps me out of troubles=)
if i want to ride fast ill get another ski and go for it..

there should be one machine (some kind of a dyno) for these engines, every new engine would get tested and rated 1-10 for every sector.. power area low mid high, durability, cost, you know like war games when there is list of all weapons, some are more accurate than other some has more damage etc...

i know it´s a stupid idea. there is way many variables.. but it would be nice=)

But if this machine exists there shoud be another rate system for you´r skills to tune engines..
example if you are 1-10scale in 7level of engine tuning you would not buy 9 or 10 level engine cos you are gonna fuzz it up some how.

what im trying to say is that it does not matter how good/reliable engine you have, you can mess it up or wont get it run propely if you wont put your hart in to it and spend those boring hours on lake doing NV, spring, jet,eaxhaust,pump adjusting.

There is no bolt on power :(

and for you guys calling names.. there is no need to get personally about it.. were all adrenalin junkies trying to have some fun with our Carbon/glasfiber smokers... and we all have our "engine bible" that we follow.. all written by your self with your own experience over the years , so there is no need or its not even possible to compaire these :D:cool::po_Oo_O
 
speedysprocket

speedysprocket

Alex
Location
Chesapeake, VA
j0hnny said:
there are a lot of reasons that cast is difficult to work with in a race engine. im not saying it can't be fixed. but there is a reason high end racing engines in every sport of racing go to billet blocks. cast is inferior no matter what you do to it. once again not saying it can't be a good motor. it will just be hard to push the same power and heat and extreme levels from a cast part due to casting imperfections showing there nasty side long before a billet cylinder will.

once again please don't take this as ragging on TPE. you asked for an informed answer.
Click to expand...
So what part of the cylinder is responsible for containing that power? The bore, right? And it sounds like everyone can agree nikasil is superior to iron sleeves. Do any of the billet engines have nikasil bores? I don't think so... but correct me if I'm wrong. So where does handling the power come into play with cast? These cylinders have plenty of material where needed to make up for a potentially weaker manufacturing technique. Oh, and dissipate heat? Last thing I remember from heat transfer class, aluminum transfers heat much quicker than iron...
Casting plays two parts here- one is cost, but that's just a nice side effect. More importantly, the billet cylinders do not have the sort of transfer port shapes that these cast cylinders are capable of having. The bulges around the base of this cylinder are to get a better flowing charge of air/fuel into the combustion chamber. I can't imagine how much more that same shape would cost to do with billet, if there even is a CNC machine capable of it, and you'd have to start with an even larger piece of aluminum first, and have more waste...
So- two sides to every story. I hope you enjoy your 964 as much as almost every one else when you get it!
 
Big Kahuna

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
Honestly, if your buying 1000cc motors, aftermarket cylinders, etc etc. You need to be able to work on your own stuff and to understand what and what changes effect the tuning............. It use to be that way. Now you have guys buying these huge motors, they do not know how to tune them, then they come here bitching saying XYZ motor/ builder screwed up their motors.
 
j0hnny

j0hnny

Location
detroit MI
its not that nicasil vs steel is the thing in quetsion. and fyi i have all my cyliner sleeves nicasil coated. it is amazing t go through 4 sets of rings and never had to re bore the engine just a light home and go. the issue with cast is not the shape. it can be the inconsistency. if its thicker in one spot or if there is an air pocket it can create hot and cold spots. again not that these particular motors arent performing amazing especially for the money. it is more so that there is more potential for inconsistency. billet is a more precise figure and calculation. it will always be the same. motor to motor. you can still get a poorly assembled engine from anyone.

i guess for me it comes down to this. 750sx or square nose hulls can be 25 years old at this point and still be on the water just getting the poop beat out of them. how many bob gen 1's are still around. they were cheap they did exactly what they were supposed to and i feel helped open up the aftermarket hull world to more common people. but due to weight and build and inconsistencies in manufacturing they didn't last the test of time.

please don't take this as bashing eric. TPE has made an amazing leap and will for teams like scream and dasa to be competative. but i hope that the evolution of the TPE motor is a progressive line and that some of the inherent issues which i do feel like a lot of are trying to be hidden due to it being a very hard market to break into need to be expose so they can be worked through. there is no unicorn engine. there is a down side to every trade off. maybe this one has been hidden. aybe people don't know what to expect yet, maybe it is a time thing. we will see.
 
KTM434

KTM434

Jamie FN Hickey
Location
Palm Coast FL
I'm willing to bet if there was a demo 964 with 140psi and nobody knew it, most people would have great reviews. Cranking compression is not how an engine is built or designed, it's just part of the equation and something that less knowledgable people can complain about since they don't understand the "how" or "why" of a 2 stroke design. This engine makes incredible power on lower cranking compression readings with stock stroke crank unlike some others I've ridden with race gas compression. And once again it all comes down to your setup and tuning. Why complain about lower cranking compression if you'll never allow the engine to see its potential due to running lackluster parts and tuning?
 
j0hnny

j0hnny

Location
detroit MI
this is one of the best things ive read yet. although properly designed more compression is better. friend too .015 off of a 650sx head. it performs worse that stock but has 190 psi compression...... but still. if you build me an engine that is supposed to be at 165 for ex. if it reads 140 then there is something wrong. that wasn't the spec it was supposed to be built to. so now you are highlighting manufacturing issues. no matter how much power it makes it wasn't built to the spec they said it would be.
 
KTM434

KTM434

Jamie FN Hickey
Location
Palm Coast FL
I was not involved in that transaction so I can't speak of it. I'm just simply stating that this engine is capable of much more power at a lower compression rating than others out there due to the design so don't buy an engine simply based on cranking compression. Just like your friends 650sx, that 15psi didn't make it a better engine, it just put the needle higher up on his gauge
 
speedysprocket

speedysprocket

Alex
Location
Chesapeake, VA
Cranking compression should be more of a tool to diagnose issues or help determine where the top end is in its life cycle than a way to predict performance. It is affected by port timing, and Erik does not use the same port timing as a Dasa, so how can you compare his 180 psi to Dasa's 180 psi? But if your engine had 180 psi new, and it's down to 160, then that would be a sign that a top end rebuild is needed, or when one cylinder is still 180 and the other is 40- you have a problem...
 
tatronation

tatronation

Location
wi
speedysprocket said:
So what part of the cylinder is responsible for containing that power? The bore, right? And it sounds like everyone can agree nikasil is superior to iron sleeves. Do any of the billet engines have nikasil bores? I don't think so... but correct me if I'm wrong. So where does handling the power come into play with cast? These cylinders have plenty of material where needed to make up for a potentially weaker manufacturing technique. Oh, and dissipate heat? Last thing I remember from heat transfer class, aluminum transfers heat much quicker than iron...
Casting plays two parts here- one is cost, but that's just a nice side effect. More importantly, the billet cylinders do not have the sort of transfer port shapes that these cast cylinders are capable of having. The bulges around the base of this cylinder are to get a better flowing charge of air/fuel into the combustion chamber. I can't imagine how much more that same shape would cost to do with billet, if there even is a CNC machine capable of it, and you'd have to start with an even larger piece of aluminum first, and have more waste...
So- two sides to every story. I hope you enjoy your 964 as much as almost every one else when you get it!
Click to expand...


The php 898 has a nikasil bore..
 
Big Kahuna

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
As far as comments about compression goes................ Read this. Your compression may be where it is suppose to be, but your cheap gauge may be telling you wrong. Also, Just because you heard someone else has low compression, it may not mean squat, why? because they may have been using the wrong gauge..............

THE GAUGE - Most engine builders have a drawer in their rollaway dedicated to storing all the "cheap compression gauges" that they have used the poor judgment to buy during their career. However in the very front of that drawer is the Snap-On gauge that gets used regularly. This gauge is preferred not just for it's good accuracy and durability, but rather for one simple design feature. The adaptor hoses, of the Snap-On gauge, that screw into the spark plug threads has a Schrader air fitting at the spark plug tip location. That is, the pressure is sealed off at the face of the dome in the cylinder head, which gives the truest representation of the exact combustion chamber volume. Most other automotive gauges have this air seal fitting mounted in the gauge body, at the end of a 16" hose. This means that the air volume inside that hose (usually about 3-4 cc) is added to the combustion chamber volume during a measurement. The end result of his added volume is a reading that is 20 - 35 psi lower than the true reading. For similar reasons, the tapered rubber "hold - on" type gauges are virtually useless. Besides indicating the added 2 cc of the threaded spark plug hole itself, these gauges are notorious for leaking as well.
 
DAG

DAG

Yes, my balls tickled from that landing
Location
Charlotte, NC
If a cheap gauge reads 150 of 150 psi on a virgin OEM cylinder and thats same gauge reads 160 of 180 psi on a dasa motor, is the gauge bad?
 
j0hnny

j0hnny

Location
detroit MI
lets play who's smarter than the engineer. you are right you all win. im sorry that you can't understand that i am speaking to theory and not ripping on the builder. if i receive my engine and my snap on gauge says 165/165 and three days later it reads 145/140 with similar engine temps and running conditions. something is wrong. and as an engineer of course i test across multiple gauges.

again not bashing tpe but you seem to not understand that since most posts are defensive. are some of the cases that have been talked about user error. yeah most likely. but 100% of the customers that have issues you can't honestly believe they are all wrong. but believe whatever you want. i have said my peace and am done arguing about the same theory that you are.
 
Big Kahuna

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
DAG said:
If a cheap gauge reads 150 of 150 psi on a virgin OEM cylinder and thats same gauge reads 160 of 180 psi on a dasa motor, is the gauge bad?
Click to expand...
That makes no sense. If the dasa motor makes 180psi on a certified Gauge and your gauge only reads 160 then I would say your Gauge is bad. My superjet had around 160-165 lbs compression when new if I am not mistaken. But that is irrelevant.
 
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