Custom/Hybrid what's with all the new hullbuilder hate?

McDog

Other Administrator
Staff member
Location
South Florida
How do we expect our hobby/sport to grow if we attack all the new hullbuilders? Seriously? What is the hate all about? We should be excited and welcoming to new products to try out. Deciding to get into the ski game right now is inviting all sorts of attacks on here. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to that? Why do they have to?

I think it is disgusting and it greatly confuses me. What the hell is wrong with people these days?
 

ProSouth

Seriously, Don't be a dick.
Location
kawasakis suck
With more riders, comes more haters. I really haven't seen any hulls that were an absolute abortion. Some need more attention than others, but this all varies the price. Just my opinion
 

Scorn800

Ride for life
Location
North NJ
I think questioning new builders is good. Too many people thinks is easy to whip out a new hull and have no real experience. riding or building or both.
 

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
I agree with you. Love should be shown for anyone willing to try to make an effort. I have tried to show nothing but love for the new products.

I'd like to try to answer your questions however.

A common trend I have noticed with a lot of these new products and hills is a lot of hype and not a lot of r&d. These things are't presented as finished tested products. They keep showing up as incomplete and untested, with extended delivery dates, cool paint and no proof of performance or quality.

This is I have stopped posting in build threads and ask in specific questions. There's no love for what I am trying with my x2. It's so off the wall, I can't blame people for being skeptics. I would be. I could only imagine the response if I showed off my x2 unfinished with a forsake sign in it.
 
I think most people haven't gotten over the Stunt hull debacle yet. They see every new build as one of those, but I think the game has really changed in the psst few years.

Gotta love new products and better pricing, its what we need to see the sport grow, cudos to all who venture into this industry offering new products and innovative designs with consumers in mind!
 

McDog

Other Administrator
Staff member
Location
South Florida
Im all about being skeptical before i buy. And no doubt some of the fan boys keep crapping in each others threads to keep each other stirred up. But give the builders a chance before you slam them. Maybe they could have waited to annojnce it when it was all finished but they were excited and wanted to show the whole progression as they went along. We could have watched patiently but instead demanded video relentlessly.

I guess all that started putting a bad taste in my mouth when people started slamming hulls when they haven't even tried them. Then is see a well known product company get attacked over some picture of a prototype hull being damaged before they have even announced it for sale. All the drama is getting old.
 
constructive critic <> bashing ......its a thin line........evolving sport >> will require lots of trail and error, some hulls will stay and evolve other will dissapear .....as with any product , props to those who have truley testrode several hulls with several set ups and can form a subjective opinion !!
 
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ProSouth

Seriously, Don't be a dick.
Location
kawasakis suck
Oh there was one hull builder that was just plane bad.,,.


HIGHROLLER STUNT HULL.


I like that more people are making hulls..
I wouldn't say that hull was bad, that's one of the ones I would say needed the most detail, but COULD be built into a decent hull. It could've been worse. But, I've only seen one and that's waternuts. Which is probably the best one.
 
I'm all about new builders and new companies coming on here and bringing "new" or "better" parts to the market. The sport is on an up swing and new stuff will only help that.
Aslong as these new guys and new companies are supporting the freerides or the races and giving back to the sport.

What I am not about are these guys who come on here and are making cheap copies of parts that are already out there. Or coming on and selling "billet finger throttles" and they are cast. Or coming out with non tested parts and when they are asked questions they just reply "oh it should work" or "it's less money so it's great".
Or my favorite is "if they break ill give you new ones" I got news for you when motor mounts break and a motor spiders a carbon Q8, getting 4 more mounts that will break in 5mins are not going to fix the hull. Or a blown out Midshaft bearing and a ski sinks, why would a want another one that won't last half a tank of gas?

What I'm also not about are these 19year old kids who strip skis and sell junk parts ripping people off left and right and just playing dumb. Or people saying they are a real company while they are just Internet hacks out to rip people off.


Sorry for the rant but more companies isn't always better, but new better companies can help the sport.
 
constructive critic <> bashing ......its a thin line........evolving sport >> will require lots of trail and error, some hulls will stay and evolve other will dissapear .....as with any product , props to those who have truley testrode several hulls with several set ups and can form a subjective opinion !!
Well said, it is a thin line. You need to have tough skin when you are coming out with new things.
 

Matt_E

steals hub caps from cars
Site Supporter
Location
at peace
Here's my take on it. There are a few different reasons.

Anonymity and audience
It's an Internet forum. With total anonymity and a large audience, it's really easy for people to turn into assholes and type things they would never say to anyone face to face. You can see the same behavior from people on forums everywhere, on any website that allows public commenting on content. And it's really easy to fall into it yourself and participate, respond, retaliate. It's so easy to just type away without any consequences

Size of the sport

As small as this niche sport is, there sure are a lot of builders that came out of nowhere in the past few years. Some have turned out great. Some have disappeared. Some have screwed people out of their money. That makes posters on this forum (and others) very suspicious of any new builder (and probably for good reason)

The best is whatever I spent my money on
Hulls are expensive. People are choosy with what they spend their hard-earned money on. A lot of thought process may have gone into it. And because hull builders are pretty small operations in most cases, the customer gets a lot of personal interaction directly with the builder. That builds a pretty good bond between customer and builder. That, in turn, causes some people to act like jackasses towards other builders with hulls they perceive as "less than what I bought". It also causes those customers to display a lot of loyalty to their builder in threads where that builder or hull gets criticized. Maybe they get so pissed off that they will seek out other hull threads and chit on them just because.

Splashing
There's only so many different ways a hull can look. People are quick to call new builders out on splashing other products. Sometimes it's justified and sometimes it's not. But you know it's a problem and happens all the time, everyone from the little guy to the big guys may be doing it. When you're showing off your newly made footholds that you made and they have a competitor's logo imprinted in them, that's pretty bold. The practice is rampant and people love calling that out.

Testing, LOL what's that?
It's happened more than once that some new builder has come out with parts, or worse, hulls that are just 'designed' by looking at other stuff and without any testing at all or very little. And because the level of builder can vary so widely between garage hack and pro, some people are leary of that. So they ask and maybe they're not nice about it because they're jaded or because they're assholes. The new builder or perhaps their cheerleaders will get upset. You know what happens.

Builders
In a lot of cases, the hull builders themselves are not a company but rather a garage operation. This isn't a comment on anyone's skills to build a hull or run a business out of their garage. But those circumstances can make it easy to slip up with quality and/or customer service. Another thing that happens is these hull builders will be regular forum members who grew into the hull builder position. When anyone hates on the builder on the forum, that builder then acts like a 'normal' forum member when he should be acting like a business. Yes, there is a lot of hating on hull builders, but there is a just about equal amount of hating by hull builders. It doesn't impress me at all to see someone who solicits thousands of dollars from potential customers act like a kindergarten kid with a grudge against another kid.
I think it's pretty easy to tell when an up and coming vendor in this sport grows up into a real business that wants to get taken seriously: They pretty much stop posting on forums. There's nothing but hate and it's hard to see that and not respond. Ever wonder why the big players don't post at all or very very little?
 
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Crab

thanks darin...noswad!
Location
Seattle
Here's my take on it. There are a few different reasons.

Anonymity and audience
It's an Internet forum. With total anonymity and a large audience, it's really easy for people to turn into assholes and type things they would never say to anyone face to face. You can see the same behavior from people on forums everywhere, on any website that allows public commenting on content. And it's really easy to fall into it yourself and participate, respond, retaliate. It's so easy to just type away without any consequences

Size of the sport

As small as this niche sport is, there sure are a lot of builders that came out of nowhere in the past few years. Some have turned out great. Some have disappeared. Some have screwed people out of their money. That makes posters on this forum (and others) very suspicious of any new builder (and probably for good reason)

The best is whatever I spent my money on
Hulls are expensive. People are choosy with what they spend their hard-earned money on. A lot of thought process may have gone into it. And because hull builders are pretty small operations in most cases, the customer gets a lot of personal interaction directly with the builder. That builds a pretty good bond between customer and builder. That, in turn, causes some people to act like jackasses towards other builders with hulls they perceive as "less than what I bought". It also causes those customers to display a lot of loyalty to their builder in threads where that builder or hull gets criticized. Maybe they get so pissed off that they will seek out other hull threads and chit on them just because.

Splashing
There's only so many different ways a hull can look. People are quick to call new builders out on splashing other products. Sometimes it's justified and sometimes it's not. But you know it's a problem and happens all the time, everyone from the little guy to the big guys may be doing it. When you're showing off your newly made footholds that you made and they have a competitor's logo imprinted in them, that's pretty bold. The practice is rampant and people love calling that out.

Testing, LOL what's that?
It's happened more than once that some new builder has come out with parts, or worse, hulls that are just 'designed' by looking at other stuff and without any testing at all or very little. And because the level of builder can vary so widely between garage hack and pro, some people are leary of that. So they ask and maybe they're not nice about it because they're jaded or because they're assholes. The new builder or perhaps their cheerleaders will get upset. You know what happens.

Builders
In a lot of cases, the hull builders themselves are not a company but rather a garage operation. This isn't a comment on anyone's skills to build a hull or run a business out of their garage. But those circumstances can make it easy to slip up with quality and/or customer service. Another thing that happens is these hull builders will be regular forum members who grew into the hull builder position. When anyone hates on the builder on the forum, that builder then acts like a 'normal' forum member when he should be acting like a business. Yes, there is a lot of hating on hull builders, but there is a just about equal amount of hating by hull builders. It doesn't impress me at all to see someone who solicits thousands of dollars from potential customers act like a kindergarten kid with a grudge against another kid.
I think it's pretty easy to tell when an up and coming vendor in this sport grows up into a real business that wants to get taken seriously: They pretty much stop posting on forums. There's nothing but hate and it's hard to see that and not respond. Ever wonder why the big players don't post at all or very very little?
What he said...
 

customride0105

Site Supporter
Location
sterling va
I wouldn't say that hull was bad, that's one of the ones I would say needed the most detail, but COULD be built into a decent hull. It could've been worse. But, I've only seen one and that's waternuts. Which is probably the best one.


Lol that's why I said builder....I can show u pics of a ready to ride ski with a 1/2inch hole in the back of the ski
bolts almost half inch off. What I thought damaged hood no just bad lay up 2 were like that
 

ProSouth

Seriously, Don't be a dick.
Location
kawasakis suck
i wasnt disagreeing really man. theres a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed, tweaked, or all out replaced/rebuilt. i dont exactly know what those hulls sold for, but i guess these are the reasons it didnt sell for $7500 like some other hulls.
 
Matt and Twin both of you are on point. I'm glad others see it too. Also, price does not indicate quality.
 
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It is like watching a bunch of high school girls fighting over a dude.
 
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