i dont think they are aloud to race 500 cc 2 strokes anymore.. but in the 450 4 stroke classes you can ride a 250cc 2 stroke right?
2 STROKE VS> 4 STROKE OPINIONS WANTED!!!
- Thread starter kwakhead
- Start date
N3vrSat1sfied
Military Member
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
true, and 250 4 stroke class you can ride a 150
ive had a couple........ cant remember how many exactly.. gone through quite a few over the years
exactly my point! so wouldnt it make since that the 2 strokes have more power per cc than the 4 strokes? dont get me wrong, 4 strokes are quieter, song like really long farts lol, neighborhood friendly, but i have yet to see one of the same displacement that is better than a 2 stroke. my opinion is this yz250 vs yzf250, the 2 stroke wins hands down.
thats a good sugestion.. not in every case though..
N3vrSat1sfied
Military Member
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
well power wise yes, but like i said above the two stroke is harder to ride, clutch feather, keeping it in the power band= arm pump etc. But way more fun to ride!
ProSouth
Seriously, Don't be a dick.
- Location
- kawasakis suck
But the water migration patterns on 4 strokes are sooooo prehistoric.
In all reality, I hate 2 strokes. I never raced dirtcycles so I'm not a guy that grew up on 2 strokes. I worked mainly on sport bikes and they're more predictable to be. I can tune them easier and probably better than I can a 2smoke. If there was a reasonably priced 4stroke as an alternative to a 701, I would. But, there won't be. You'd need a a massive motor to compete with a 701, and in turn, you're adding weight. Weight is bad mmmmkay children.
In all reality, I hate 2 strokes. I never raced dirtcycles so I'm not a guy that grew up on 2 strokes. I worked mainly on sport bikes and they're more predictable to be. I can tune them easier and probably better than I can a 2smoke. If there was a reasonably priced 4stroke as an alternative to a 701, I would. But, there won't be. You'd need a a massive motor to compete with a 701, and in turn, you're adding weight. Weight is bad mmmmkay children.
- Location
- La Crosse, WI on the BIG River
2 strokes go brapp, 4 strokes go burpp
If I remember correctly AMA and Moto GP switched to 4 stroke because the big four didn't want to develop two different technologies.
Moto GP might have one class (250?) where 2 strokes can still run.
The biggest push from 4 to 2 was the emissions standards in the late 90s-now. 2 strokes are catching up in emissions now that Direct Injection is around and reliable.
In the Duck/Fishing boat world, there is a whole following of guys that won't touch 4 stroke outboards, me being one of them. You can't lay them on their side...how do you portage the dam thing then? Small Boat transoms were never made for the weight of the 4 strokes that are out today. Warranty claims galore in the Aluminum boat realm.
and just to be clear, 2 strokes don't always push more RPMs. 7000rpm is peak average for stand up jet ski engines. Sport bikes and Formula one pull 12k+ all day. 4 strokes were limited to 8000 Rpms until mechanical closing valves were utilized, springs melted or just couldn't keep up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve
and if you didn't know there are a lot of 2 stroke Diesels being used in heavy industry. From coach buses to ships.
If I remember correctly AMA and Moto GP switched to 4 stroke because the big four didn't want to develop two different technologies.
Moto GP might have one class (250?) where 2 strokes can still run.
The biggest push from 4 to 2 was the emissions standards in the late 90s-now. 2 strokes are catching up in emissions now that Direct Injection is around and reliable.
In the Duck/Fishing boat world, there is a whole following of guys that won't touch 4 stroke outboards, me being one of them. You can't lay them on their side...how do you portage the dam thing then? Small Boat transoms were never made for the weight of the 4 strokes that are out today. Warranty claims galore in the Aluminum boat realm.
and just to be clear, 2 strokes don't always push more RPMs. 7000rpm is peak average for stand up jet ski engines. Sport bikes and Formula one pull 12k+ all day. 4 strokes were limited to 8000 Rpms until mechanical closing valves were utilized, springs melted or just couldn't keep up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve
and if you didn't know there are a lot of 2 stroke Diesels being used in heavy industry. From coach buses to ships.
Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
That apples to grapes
On a track, power to power, they are not in the same ballpark...... It is all about putting the power to the rear tire. a 4 stroke 250 (Race bike, YZ, KX, CR, RM, SX) puts out about the same power to the rear tire as a 2 stroke RM,KX,CR,YZ or SX. Same goes for the 450 - 4 stroke vs 250 - 2 stroke.....
a 125cc 2 stroke puts alot of power out, but you have to be on the gas really hard and keep it there to get the power output. the 250 - 4 Stroke is about the same, but a whole lot easier to ride. Being easier, will let you ride harder and faster. If you go look at old lap times on 2 strokes, vs 4 strokes, you will find they they are much faster on the 4 strokes.
Schmidty721
someone turf my rails
- Location
- WI
I'm going to stay out of this one lol.
Yami-Rider
TigerCraft FV-PRO
- Location
- Texoma
2 strokes and 4 strokes have there place. IMO i couldnt see me ever wanting a 4 stroke in my superjet, weight to power isnt as good, also think about if you hydro-locked the motor...have done it a few times to my superjet and was back on the water in about 30 min, wouldnt be the case for a 4-stroke.
Now when it come to MX I wouldnt trade my kx250f for anything, more torque down low making it alot easier to get around the track. I'm sure with the right power valve technology they could of figured something out, but why would they when the big 4 makes more money of 4 strokes.
Now when it come to MX I wouldnt trade my kx250f for anything, more torque down low making it alot easier to get around the track. I'm sure with the right power valve technology they could of figured something out, but why would they when the big 4 makes more money of 4 strokes.
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
Of course lap times are alot quicker on four strokes. The bikes are newer and all the top riders are on them. Why because that was the sponsor says to do. They are working for the man as well. Four strokes have done so much damage to the sport of motocross. No one can afford to constantly fix a four stroke and not every one if they can afford can do it either.
They have there place and in a sport where weight is not so much of a concern " sport bikes" they are ideal.
I laugh when I read people say they are peaky. oh have you ridden a 450-500cc two stroke mx bike from years ago. Not much in the way of clutch feathering there.
They are not allowed the same displacement as the four stroke to allow the four stroke to even have a chance. Maybe if they let turbos into the mx then the four stroke would have a chance. displacement to displacement
They have there place and in a sport where weight is not so much of a concern " sport bikes" they are ideal.
I laugh when I read people say they are peaky. oh have you ridden a 450-500cc two stroke mx bike from years ago. Not much in the way of clutch feathering there.
They are not allowed the same displacement as the four stroke to allow the four stroke to even have a chance. Maybe if they let turbos into the mx then the four stroke would have a chance. displacement to displacement
227
Its all about the surf!
- Location
- Oceanside, CA
As already stated when it comes to Stand Up Watercraft 2 strokes are advantageous due to weight and water ingestion. Sink a 2 stroke and all you need to do is pull the plugs, roll 'er over and crank out the water to get it restarted. Sink a 4 stroke and your doing an engine teardown. And we all know what that word weight means
as far as jet skis are concerned, 4 stroke technology is not nearly as good as it needs to be yet for me to drop in a four stroke rather than a two stroke. in the dirtbike world, for motorcross id go with a two stroke anyday, lighter, far better response and power to weight ratio, typically a higher static compression ratio, its sad though, two strokes pollute too much cause the oil they burn, lets not say 4 strokes are environmentally friendly either. Its all the EPAs fault that kawasaki stopped making the 2 stroke SXR, they gave kawasaki alot of crap for all the pollution it causes. same with yamaha, they dont make alot of superjets any more.
Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
If Kawi wanted. They could still produce. Not enough demand
makejetskiinggreatagain
Brandon
I respectfully disagree^^^^^^^^ There is demand for an affordable ski that meets the desires of the current riders (freestyle). There will never be demand for the type of ski kawi wants to put out there though. If there wasn't demand, we wouldn't have a million aftermarket builders all making money.
- Location
- Washington
All you see is the demand for freestyle because of this site
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
3 points
#1 Weight: This one would be my first priority for freestyle sports whether its MX freestyle, jetski freestyle, snowmobiling in technical backcountry, or any application where very responsive handling is required. 2 stroke motors carry much less weight generally.
#2 Reliability: 4 stroke reliability is generally much better. Firing at half the rate and having the motor basically bathed in oil at all times gives the egde of longevity to the 4s.
#3 Emissions: This is the least of my concerns but a big issue for EPA. They are again introducing higher emission standards for 2 stroke manufacturers in 2015. How ever you feel about it theres no denying that 2 strokes generally produce more emissions firing every rev and burning all of its lubrication oil.
- Cost is a non issue for me. 2s are cheaper to make but more expensive to maintain. 4s are more expensive to make but rarely require much more than oil changes.
- If you say one makes more power than the other your ignorant. Its all sport specific.
#1 Weight: This one would be my first priority for freestyle sports whether its MX freestyle, jetski freestyle, snowmobiling in technical backcountry, or any application where very responsive handling is required. 2 stroke motors carry much less weight generally.
#2 Reliability: 4 stroke reliability is generally much better. Firing at half the rate and having the motor basically bathed in oil at all times gives the egde of longevity to the 4s.
#3 Emissions: This is the least of my concerns but a big issue for EPA. They are again introducing higher emission standards for 2 stroke manufacturers in 2015. How ever you feel about it theres no denying that 2 strokes generally produce more emissions firing every rev and burning all of its lubrication oil.
- Cost is a non issue for me. 2s are cheaper to make but more expensive to maintain. 4s are more expensive to make but rarely require much more than oil changes.
- If you say one makes more power than the other your ignorant. Its all sport specific.