Super Jet 771 SuperJet Build
- Thread starter munki63
- Start date
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
my buddy picked up a skat 13/17 c-75 for 200 shipped i believe. he does not have the tbm yet. i got mine from legdrag. i am 99% sure it is 3mm cutback. legdrag had a bit of a deal if you did the tbm and the prop. Blowsion also has their version but uses spacers instead of different cones to make longer cone volumes. they probably have a c-75 skat 12/17 cutback combo they would sell you as well. all three of us ontario boys got the exact same combo as each other from legdrag so that is what we use. our different motor setups used different reduction nozzle sizes but we all used the smallest cone and found it to work best. the bigger the cone the sooner/lower rpms the motor would get loaded at. we all run TL on them but when i went to daytona i dropped the tl for enhancer and lightened 61x flywheel and it worked great in the surf. if your motor is ripping hard and clean then that is good. i can't tell from my screen. if you get this combo, it is known to be a good setup. if it doesn;t solve your problem then it would be the motor not quite tuned in. you will at least know for sure that the pump is as good as it can be with the oem pump. If you need more performance after that, get a TL. But, i would not get a TL at this point until you do your pump upgrades. if you go mag, that is even better but you will get alot of different opinions again of what size, prop pitch and veins etc etc. if you want to use what you got to work the best, i would do the tbm route.
just for fun, what is your head pipe setup, is it running hot enough?
just for fun, what is your head pipe setup, is it running hot enough?
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
nice, that is the way i run mine too. after more talking it for sure sounds like you hesitation could be that same thing i had with my solas. i thought of it as spinning the tires a bit then pulling up real good. my tbm/skat doesn't even chirp the tires and feels like AWD lol.
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OCD Solutions
Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
- Location
- Rentz, GA
Actually I said I don't think you need a Mag or could at least make due without one for now. Add a TBM to your setup like D-roc says and you should be able to dial it in pretty good. You still won't get the benefit of the multiple stator vanes but you will be much closer anyways.
I could be wrong but if you have a skat C75 impeller and a TBM stuffer in your oem pump, it should translate pretty close to what the Mag setup would need too. I run a 14/19 in my mag and my buddy uses the 14/19 with his TBM. He has a bit of a hesitation and slightly less thrust but that is due to differences between the mag and oem stators. The spinning tires is the best analogy when talking pump differences. Simply put, the mag pump is posi trac.
I do need a 13/18 for my wife's ski but it is for a 140mm Mag so it won't translate to your setup.
I ran out of time this weekend but I was going to pull my pump to remove the shim and stick the Hooker 11/17 into my Mag pump. I am interested to see how the Hooker prop compares to the C75 in a mag pump. Some say the Hooker props will all have a bit of hesitation so I am not sure how much is the prop design versus the actual assembly. I am finding it very interesting that you can make a mag perform poorly by making the same mistakes as you would in an oem pump. If that is the case then there is alot more that can be done to an oem pump before it becomes necessary to upgrade. It almost appears that X-Scream does know what they are talking about when recomending the TBM setup, its just too bad they don't go into more detail on all the little tricks of assembly that are required to close the performance gap.
I could be wrong but if you have a skat C75 impeller and a TBM stuffer in your oem pump, it should translate pretty close to what the Mag setup would need too. I run a 14/19 in my mag and my buddy uses the 14/19 with his TBM. He has a bit of a hesitation and slightly less thrust but that is due to differences between the mag and oem stators. The spinning tires is the best analogy when talking pump differences. Simply put, the mag pump is posi trac.
I do need a 13/18 for my wife's ski but it is for a 140mm Mag so it won't translate to your setup.
I ran out of time this weekend but I was going to pull my pump to remove the shim and stick the Hooker 11/17 into my Mag pump. I am interested to see how the Hooker prop compares to the C75 in a mag pump. Some say the Hooker props will all have a bit of hesitation so I am not sure how much is the prop design versus the actual assembly. I am finding it very interesting that you can make a mag perform poorly by making the same mistakes as you would in an oem pump. If that is the case then there is alot more that can be done to an oem pump before it becomes necessary to upgrade. It almost appears that X-Scream does know what they are talking about when recomending the TBM setup, its just too bad they don't go into more detail on all the little tricks of assembly that are required to close the performance gap.
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D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
good anology OCD, i heard to never go over a 17 on the pitch, if you feel you need to, get a bigger pump or reduce the reduction nozzle so the pumps' compression goes up and works the motor more. I have no clue about this comment but i can agree with it in theory. lets call the tbm posi traction and the mag can be the AWD, with sticky 245's on all fours. haha.
So I called XScream today (Not that I don't value and appreciate your input)
Anyways I talked them and explained how the ski was riding told them that I've tried the 11/17 and 10/16, asked about going with a mag pump or TBM, Im don't remember the name of the guy I was talking to but he told me the issue I am having wouldn't be fixed by throwing in a TBM and on flatwater a mag pump I wouldn't utilize it fully because it just helps hook up in white wash. I also told him that I had to adjust the carbs and my pistons were so clean. After our conversation he told me he was going to talk to Pat about it and get right back to me, surprisingly he called me back about an hour later and told me to get a 13/17 after I change impellers I should play with my jetting but not before I change impellers... So because they built my entire set-up and I can't really bitch about there set-up unless I'm following it 100% I ordered one this afternoon, I'm REALLY looking forward to trying this impeller just to see if the hate chuck/art have for the hookers is legitimate, So I'll be selling an impeller next week looks like, after I get this impeller set-up figured out I'll move on to a TBM or mag
Anyways I talked them and explained how the ski was riding told them that I've tried the 11/17 and 10/16, asked about going with a mag pump or TBM, Im don't remember the name of the guy I was talking to but he told me the issue I am having wouldn't be fixed by throwing in a TBM and on flatwater a mag pump I wouldn't utilize it fully because it just helps hook up in white wash. I also told him that I had to adjust the carbs and my pistons were so clean. After our conversation he told me he was going to talk to Pat about it and get right back to me, surprisingly he called me back about an hour later and told me to get a 13/17 after I change impellers I should play with my jetting but not before I change impellers... So because they built my entire set-up and I can't really bitch about there set-up unless I'm following it 100% I ordered one this afternoon, I'm REALLY looking forward to trying this impeller just to see if the hate chuck/art have for the hookers is legitimate, So I'll be selling an impeller next week looks like, after I get this impeller set-up figured out I'll move on to a TBM or mag
Not sure I agree on that. When I switched from a well setup stock pump to a well setup mag pump, I got tremendous performance gains in low and mid range acceleration, top speed, and hookup. This is all on flatwater.
But that's just a derail.
See what you think about that impeller. I didn't like the Concord 13/17 all that much because it had a slight lag to it. The Skat Swirl seemed to be a bit better. But you can't really complain about the setup until you've tried it 100% to their recommendation.
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I hear you! Once I get my pump running properly I'll look at a TBM or Mag, I can't stand it I'm kinda experiencing a lag with the 10/16 but it 1/2 a second long, if I pull the trigger 1/2 second early all the time it wouldn't be so bad, But as long as I can keep moving the impellers I keep buying it's not half bad lol
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
so what prop is it you ordered? 13/17 swirl c-75?
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
ouch.
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
can ya still feel the hesitation? haha.
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
if a mag and a tbm can hookup a pump in the white washy stuff, i wonder how it does on the normal flatwaters? worse? no.
cookn
Kamikaze
- Location
- where you live
I want to be the non biased opinion here, as i don't own any of these parts, nor ride a superjet. But i do ride with lots of them. I know of two skis one a 701 and the other a 771 yet both run the same prop and tbm pump cone with total loss and both skis have incredible power. I also rode the 701 when it first got its total loss but no pump cone or skat prop and it was like an S-10 with a 350 but stock rear end. It would just one tire fire when you got on it. I don't think the performance gains you are looking for can be found in just prop pitch. You have spent enough on props that you could have had the jetmaniac mag pump set up.
- Location
- Pennellville, NY
Just my 2cents.
I have a top and bottom LPW 771 with B-pipe limited, boyessn intake, Novi 48s, ADA head(I think 35cc) and stock Ing. w/enhancer. And I run a 13/17 -3 Solas Concord in a stock pump with a Worx intake and there is no hesitation!!! Love this set up. Oh and a reduction nozzel bored to 86mm with a Wammer Trim nozzel. I ride 80% flat! Ski really hooks up. The first prop I tried was a 9/15 Hooker and it just never felt like it was hooking up right!
I have a top and bottom LPW 771 with B-pipe limited, boyessn intake, Novi 48s, ADA head(I think 35cc) and stock Ing. w/enhancer. And I run a 13/17 -3 Solas Concord in a stock pump with a Worx intake and there is no hesitation!!! Love this set up. Oh and a reduction nozzel bored to 86mm with a Wammer Trim nozzel. I ride 80% flat! Ski really hooks up. The first prop I tried was a 9/15 Hooker and it just never felt like it was hooking up right!
OCD Solutions
Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
- Location
- Rentz, GA
I used to claim that my 10/16 had no hesitation either until I rode my new ski with the mag pump. Now, everytime I step on my old ski, all I can feel is the hesitation. It bugged me enough that bought a used mag pump to get rid of it but the more I play with pumps, the more I wonder how much can be tuned out. The question is, how much time and money do you want to invest in that tuning/learning process?
When I was shopping for my current pump setup, I spoke to alot of people who had progressed through this same process and ended up with a mag as the final solution so its not like this road hasn't been paved and polished before us. In many ways the Mag pump can actually be cheaper if you look at the big picture but sometimes the knowledge learned in the process is priceless.
Good decisions come from experience, experience comes from bad decisions. :bigok:
When I was shopping for my current pump setup, I spoke to alot of people who had progressed through this same process and ended up with a mag as the final solution so its not like this road hasn't been paved and polished before us. In many ways the Mag pump can actually be cheaper if you look at the big picture but sometimes the knowledge learned in the process is priceless.
Good decisions come from experience, experience comes from bad decisions. :bigok:
So I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say you guys are thinking the 13/17 is worse or the wrong way to go? But then moto360 says he doesn't have any lag, and Xmetal recommend that I use that impeller... Who do I listen too! Lol
Good thing I'll be able to sell my impellers or at least the hookers anyways so from that aspect it's not really that pricy, I think 90% of guys out there just go with majority and throw on hooker and figure it's as good as it gets And never try and "tune" there pump but the amount of time and money I've put in to it this year I think I would be selling myself short if I didn't at least try to get it bang on, it's the most over looked part of everybody's ski IMO, I would be willing to bet I'm a much heavier rider then most so I'm sure affects the impeller pitch I should use as well.
OCD Did you try anything other then the 10/16?
Matt/D-Rok when I end up going the TBM or Mag route I'll have to change Impellers right? And If I've got my ski dialed in with a stock will that help me to figure out what impeller to go with if I do need to change it?
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
if you buy the skat swirl 13/17 c-75 144mm prop, it will work with the tbm in the future and the mag 144 down the road. the mag and tbm have a bigger hub diameter which decreases the volume inside the pump. whatever prop is infront will fill the pump quicker. the mag has more vanes to work the water so this should cut the work of each vane in half. this makes for a faster working pump. it will give more throttle response because the pump is able to do its work faster. as already stated the tbm is the half the benifit of a mag at half the price.
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