Other A lot of new companies, what's up with the undercutting?

[SXIPro]

In the long run, the business that provides the best customer service (both technical and sales) and consistently provides the best turn around time on shipments will win out. One man's opinion.

 

[Mark44]

Sounds to me that the big business man in this sport if you want to call it that I prefer hobby needs to come up with new ideas go out and sell and not worry about what Joe at home garage dealer is doing. I would think if Joe garage dealer is hurting my sales I may want to look at a different industry to get into this may be a little small market to make a living from.

 

[Mark44]

In the long run, the business that provides the best customer service (both technical and sales) and consistently provides the best turn around time on shipments will win out in the long run. One man's opinion.

Agreed

 

[smdubs]

I feel as though if the good dealers out there, like optima, thrust, ajs, and many others can't make money due to other companies cutting out all the profit margin just to make a sale, how will the sport evolve? Who will sponsor the events, the riders, and help with r&d? If I were to start a business, I know I would need as much profit margin as possible. I also would not sell myself as the cheapest, but as the BEST! I would charge a fair price, not a cheap price. My selling points would be quality and customer service. But, what do I know about business? I just want to jetski.

We as consumers and riders HAVE to put money into the sport, or there won't be one. I will only purchase from vendors that I see putting the money into the events I ride, and putting the r&d into the products I buy.

 

[OptimaRacing]

Sounds to me that the big business man in this sport if you want to call it that I prefer hobby needs to come up with new ideas go out and sell and not worry about what Joe at home garage dealer is doing. I would think if Joe garage dealer is hurting my sales I may want to look at a different industry to get into this may be a little small market to make a living from.

Never once stated to be a "big business man". Once again, I would like to reiterate that I in no way am speaking from a personal stance. Simply business.

I am just trying to enlighten a few to the plight of the legitimate dealers who follow the rules set forth by the distributors and manufacturers. Not my rules.

I do feel that Optima has tried to come up with new ideas to help "sell". Tractor trailers carrying racers to the events. Combo packages on parts to save the buyer time and money, new product development yet to be released.

Mark44, let's not get off on the wrong foot and please don't take me the wrong way here. You seem to be taking a personal attack towards my comments and I am not sure why. I have not named any names, so I don't see how I could have offended you or a friend of yours. So I am at a little bit of a loss as to why you are on the attack for me.

Feel free to give me a call and we can discuss further, I believe it might just be a misunderstanding in what I am trying to communicate.

Mike
336-263-6398

For what it is worth, I am in California for business this week and will be moving into yet ANOTHER new commercial space that will better suit our operation, and thus provide better service to our customers. The new space will also allow for the production of some of our new production items for 2012 and beyond. We continue to grow and re-invest in the business. We aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[tshank123]

I dont see why people think this business is different than any other business in a free market. Its simple, if you can't compete on price, you compete on quality or service. A good business can offer a competitive price on a quality product, with good service. That business will get my support everytime. I agree with supporting businesses that support our events, but lets be honest, they do that mainly to market their products. If there was no perceived ROI from supporting the events, they just wouldn't do it unless they really dont care about making money (although some truly dont care about making money).

 

[nightrider05]

I didn't read through the whole 5 pages..but here is my opinion.

I agree with the OP to an extent.

There is a fine line when it comes to prices. I will gladly buy from certain people(John Zigler for example) and give what they are asking. Even if I could possibly get it from someone else a tad cheaper...its worth the bit extra to know I am getting good Service,and the parts will arrive excuse free.

What I see killing "the sport" is people copying everything and calling it their own...they then undercut the person they stole "their" idea from and people actually buy from them. Also in wanted ads you will see 5 businesses respond and some will go as far as undercutting the previous one. Its great for the buyer, but poor business practice in my opinion on the sellers behalf.

Creativity has gone to hell for alot of people...granted there are many other companies that are coming up with new/unique items.

In the end of this ramble that probably made no sense, I will say that a certain level of competition is necessary...but remember it is a business to most of these guys...they are just in it to get a PROFIT. If they aren't able to come up with new/creative ways to expand and grow, I don't really see it as my problem. Support those who support you with great customer service and good/fair prices.

 

[Str8huckin]

I understand the point some of you are trying to make, but were living in the real world. Every single industry out there has big and small business's competing for their bite of the apple. Be thankful that this industry isn't big enough for china to get involved. You think low prices are bad? The RC (remote control) industry has been over run by clones and rock bottom prices.

 

[raytherace]

I am just trying to enlighten a few to the plight of the legitimate dealers who follow the rules set forth by the distributors and manufacturers. Not my rules.

If they set the rules they can change it too.

The money talk and the rest wax.

What will I do with a storefront ??? I have only 3 customers close of where I live. All others call me or email me and I send the stuff via postal service, they almost never come to me to buy stuff, its all via shipping anyways.

Ask DK sr about if he care about if i have a storefront or not, he doesn't care, the most important part its the number of unit I sell per years, outside of that, if he has his money he is happy. BTW, More I buy more happy he is....lolll

Seriously, this thread was start with something in mind and I dont think there is 20 business to point on that subject.

 

[jMike]

Cheap prices makes a sale today. Good selling, quality and product support makes business for life or so I'd like to think.. But we are living in the China che che world where I can't even buy a damn good blender and all the quality manufacturers have had to pack it in because you can buy 10 years worth of junk 19.99 units and throw them out every month. But then you end up trodding off to Wallymart to load up another cart of junk and start all over again.. I'd gladly (and do) pay more for a quality unit that lasts a reasonable life span and isn't 100% e' plastic.. But sorrily even the some of the good stuff is starting to become disposable.. I sure hope that the consumer economy shifts back to appreciating quality and craftsmanship in our consumer goods and not just rock bottom prices. Unfortunately I think this way of thinking isn't in the better part of the 99%'s scope, who can't get it through their heads and see past today and realize over their consumer lives they will spend and waste more on junky gear in the end.. We can hope for change but I'm not going to hold my breath on this.

:soapbox:

 

[DAG]

plain and simple and if it's below msrp they just say they are doing something different so they don't have to abide by map pricing.

This quote had me thinking..


When your a new company and lets just say your selling DASA short blocks. You come come up with an idea to sell the cheapest motor by doing the port work yourself. Now since "I'm doing something different" I can advertize publicly below MSRP prices without breaking contract. Well knowone knows about me and my port work so I have to get motors out on the market to prove my work is legit. Once my hype and reputation builds I can start raising my prices. Is there something unethical with this scenario?

 

[Balduccimoto]

I agree, when I buy something I buy the damn best. I don't like to buy anything twice. Sadly even Mac, Snap-On and Matco are mostly china/taiwan tools. Compare my 20 year old snap on wrench set to my new mac set.. You can tell a huge difference in the weight/quality of steel. It's all &&&&ing junk. I despise walmart, reason they came on top is because of this chinese they put out. Consumers eat this stuff up too, I think people just don't understand.

To the sellers outraged by people undercutting, don't worry about another business undercutting you. There is many of reason for consumers to buy from a reputable establishment, it just takes certain people to finally understand when a underdog business can't give good advice or ship their product quickly.

I feel like I got flame for listing a great deal on a trivial product on a automotive website, it wasnt to offend any retailers on this forum, I actually didnt even think they would stock it.. Next season when I go for a beast motor, im going to one of the big names because the time saved tuning, and the support pays a hundred times over. Im saving pennies now, so expect a phone call within the year.

 

[imabadfish]

Sounds to me like the legitimate dealers need to get together and confront the suppliers to do more thorough checks on the "dealers" they give product to. Maybe a rule like, If you have a legitmate storefront you can do online sales, otherwise you can only sell to your local crew. If you are a "garage" dealer you got to get a waiver or something and prove you can move a serious amount of units...

I'm not a dealer but in this day in age you don't need a storefront and all the overhead to be a legit business. I work in the internet world and have had successful, legitimate online businesses... An online website can be considered your storefront, and your garage your distribution center. And this forum (among others) are just another tool to sell. I feel for the legit shops out there with storefronts because the online selling world is so easy to get into. Hell, I'm trying to get Art at Jetworks onto the online world because I think it would be good for the sport for some one like Art to be able to distribute his product better... working on his site herewww.superwebscripts.com)

That being said you can't blame the consumer... like others have said, I'm out for the lowest price plus fastest shipping on the cheaper parts. But if I'm about to drop 8K on an aftermaket hull I want a test ride, some phone calls, and possibly meeting the dealer in person.

I think the difference is when people cross that line in the sport from being a casual weekend thing to a passion/addiction. They want a good dealer that they can to talk to about fine tuning their skis that they've junk sunk 10K into and support companies that want to grow the sport. Garage, storefont, online website, shack, beach cart, it doesn't matter to me where you sell from as long as you provide quality product, answer the phone, give good customer service and help grow the sport.

@Mike at Optima. I purchased stuff from you guys at Daytona for the first time and got a great deal in my opinion and will use you guys for stuff in the future, but I only knew of you guys from this forum, facebook, your web site, and your tent you setup. I don't mean to come off as snotty but, As a consumer how are we to tell the difference from some one like your self with a storefront and a "garage" dealer? I mean I can get a tent made and web sites up for relatively low cost.

 

[WaveDemon]

This is starting to get entertaining.Now I know the part time parts people are not business men, who would have thought.
Suppliers should only sell full time jet ski business parts and not some guy turning parts out of his garage.

That's what hot products does. You have to have a legitimate store front or be grandfathered in.

 

[JamesG]

I will always buy from reputable companies and dealers. They are some of the biggest reasons this sport progresses. Blowsion, Optima, and Xmetal/Xscream are a few places that I highly respect and I will certainly continue to do business with them for as long as I ride.

 

[Buckwild12]

Ok this one could get a bit lengthy:
Some of my statements that I have made thus far reflect both sides of the fence,

I myself am a bit of a "hack". I sharpen skates for youth hockey players in my local area, it is my part time job. I do not pay for store frontage or space, electric or really anything. I charge 10 dollars per pair, 2 dollars more than my nearest competitor, a much larger rink (technically 4 rinks) and they lease a huge retail space. Employ plenty of employees, etc... Bottom line is they are in it only for profit. Their customer service is terrible, every skate that I sharpen that they are charging 8 dollars for is not properly done. In fact they are horribly off level which poses the skater a huge challenge to perform as well as a much higher injury risk. I personally own more capable, adjustable, and technologically sound equipment than they use. I also have had years and years of education on proper skate sharpening, and even more years of experience with the top 1% of hockey players in the world.

I was fortunate enough to be an Equipment manager for the NHL's Washington Capitals. I was on the team when we went all the way to the Stanley Cup, and I was the for all the years of sorrow and sucking that came after, until we got good again. there is not one person within a 200 miles who uses the same equipment, has the talent, and has the experience that I have. I am gaining new customers every day, most of whom come to me after a bad experience from the "competition". should I feel bad? I really don't. I pay taxes on my additional income, when most probably wouldn't as it's largely cash transactions. I donate 2 out of my 10 dollars back to youth hockey at the ice rink I sharpen at to help the grass roots hockey system they have get equipment to start playing. Hockey equipment is quite expensive, much like our sport. Ultimately this will result in more customers for my business. It is a win win for all parties involved, I get more $ to dump in my Freak, kids get to experience hockey that otherwise wouldn't. And I provide my current customer with a product or service that cannot be gotten if I didn't.

Moral to my long winded story,
1) every business starts out with one customer. Whether their company is big or small to start, we all start somewhere.
2) if you perform a needed service, people will come to you if they have a need and you keep yo

 

[Buckwild12]

Sorry ihit the wrong button,

If you perform a needed unique service, have a part that is that much better than the competition (thrust's trim system for example) you will retain business.

3) You can start small, charge more and succeed if you provide great service.

If you contribute to grassroots efforts to grow your customer base (in our case, sponsoring freerides, donations goods to the raffles, etc..) you get your product and name out there.

You may not get every sale, but you get your name out there, and people notice!

I may have contradicted myself even here, but this is a forum, which ultimately means discussion. Discussion is good, it helps us. Both sides of the fence is learning because of this threads very existence. Thank you Zesky for allowing us this forum.

 

[raytherace]

Can we stop to be negative and help Mcdog to find the right color for his Superfreak, he had a real problem to resolve !! I love the black and blue you ?

 

[Matt_E]

I guess I should chime in from the other side of the fence, too.
I fix skis in the summer time as a hobby side job. I do it out of my garage and don't have any overhead besides occasionally buying tools that I need. I don't really feel bad about that because:

1. There are no dealerships in the area that fix skis.
B) There is only one independent shop in the area that fixes skis and their mainstay is quads and dirtbikes.
III Thus I don't really have any real competition except other "Craigslist repair specials" and I know I do better and faster work than them, with more experience.

I started out four years ago charging very little for my time - $25/hr. I did that to get my foot in the door with potential customers and to take on projects that I could grow my experience on, that I could learn from
Every year I've raised my prices mostly to weed out dick customers (because guess what? Higher prices scare away those customers that you really don't want). Now I charge $45/hr and I'm still cheaper than the other shop. But, I don't have overhead. On the other hand, I do faster and better work, with less rework, happier customers, and spot-on diagnosis.
I used to get the main part of my business by advertising on Craigslist all the time. Then I would only put an ad out every couple of weeks and my schedule would be filled. When it tapered off, I would put another ad out.
A year later, that grew to 3-5 weeks between ads.
Now I get more than half my business from referrals from happy customers.

I'm not sure I want to continue, though. The bad part of a customer service business is that you have to deal with customers. I think I can make better money and have less asshole interaction by just buying skis from desperate sellers, fix them, and flip them.
I might try that this year. Or I'll raise my rates again to $60/hr.

 

[Buckwild12]

Matt I hear you, customer service sucks, it what I do for my real job at the moment. I service write for my friend's dads auto repair shop and dealing with people's problems suck, they expect the world and rarely want to pay. Chasing down deadbeats is the worst part of it. But we do have generally higher rates than others in our area, but provide higher quality parts than those cheapo garages do and we normally don't have the real riff raff due to our rates, but I sure have to field a ton of calls from them price shopping. if I had a dollar for every time I hear " how much you charge me for'" I could retire. Those experiences do give me the utmost respect for those in the business who do it right, answerctheir phone even on weekends, offer you advice, etc.. This whole thread has gotten me thinking about who I buy from, I am going to make some purchases from some companies that have made me realize by their posts on here that they deserve to be given the opportunity to help me, instead of me going to my usual fall back, the faceless eBay where price is all that matters. I hope it does the same to others as well.