DIY Total loss or MSD TL upgrade box 270USD?

Brett Roman

Brett Roman

Location
Michigan
New thought... why not adapt this... it says it can run on the MSD triggers... I think I could make it work... I know it says for single cylinder but our engines our waste spark ignition anyways so run it to both coils...

Seems very similar to what the zeeltronic ignition is doing...

MSD 4217 Universal 1-Cylinder, Battery Powered, Programmable Ignition

MSD's Single Cylinder Programmable Ignition gives you flexibility you could never imagine with a single cylinder engine. It is fully laptop programmable and allows you to change timing curves on the fly. Not only do you get great programming abilities, but the Capacitive Discharge design...
www.holley.com www.holley.com

I'm just a farmer so feel free to educate me.

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Big Kahuna

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
augustaf said:
That's what Borut says- I would not doubt him. - However, the claim of "stronger spark" is hard to quantify, especially in the higher rpm range. Let's not bother with a dyno....
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I dont see how higher spark is going to be generated through the OEM Coils???? But that just my thought process. Always assumed the MSD Coils is part of what makes the stronger spark.
 
Jcary85

Jcary85

Site Supporter
Location
Glenmoore pa
Big Kahuna said:
I dont see how higher spark is going to be generated through the OEM Coils???? But that just my thought process. Always assumed the MSD Coils is part of what makes the stronger spark.
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There’s some info way back in this thread about spark energy having more to do with whatever is in the ignition that charges the coil. Gotta do more research on that but seems reasonable. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible to run MSD coils with zeel also - just can’t get em in an oem box
 
Jyzmbe

Jyzmbe

Location
Plano, TX
Jcary85 said:
There’s some info way back in this thread about spark energy having more to do with whatever is in the ignition that charges the coil. Gotta do more research on that but seems reasonable. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible to run MSD coils with zeel also - just can’t get em in an oem box
Click to expand...

It’s waterproof so you can just as easily run zeel on a open plate with whatever coils you want


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S

Storbeck

Location
Minnesota
My understanding is a little bit shaky, but I believe that with an inductive ignition system the energy is stored and released from the coil, so the energy for each spark depends heavily on the characteristics of the coil (among other things), with a CDI ignition the energy is stored and released from a capacitor in the CDI (Capacitive Discharge Ignition), the coil is used only as a transformer to bump up the voltage, so the energy mostly depends on the capacitor and how quickly you charge and discharge the capacitor.
 
Jcary85

Jcary85

Site Supporter
Location
Glenmoore pa
Jyzmbe said:
It’s waterproof so you can just as easily run zeel on a open plate with whatever coils you want


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Eh I mean idk if I’d risk that the early ones didn’t even have tinned wire. Not sure if trust it. I guess you could run the MSD coils external to the box though.
 
Christian_83

Christian_83

Xscream
Location
Denmark
Big Kahuna said:
I dont see how higher spark is going to be generated through the OEM Coils???? But that just my thought process. Always assumed the MSD Coils is part of what makes the stronger spark.
Click to expand...
I made a back 2 back testing (visuel test only) with the MSD TL box vs Zeeltronic box - both on same battery and same MSD TL coils.
Sparks were very diffrent. But might not have any effect in reality - but it could mean something.
Ive speaking with Borut about possibillity for making "ekstra" spark, with twin spark orsomething producing more spark energy.
Im also speaking with him about if they can make the CDI's with tinned wire - is i think this is a nice touch with the MSD.
 
Jcary85

Jcary85

Site Supporter
Location
Glenmoore pa
Christian_83 said:
I made a back 2 back testing (visuel test only) with the MSD TL box vs Zeeltronic box - both on same battery and same MSD TL coils.
Sparks were very diffrent. But might not have any effect in reality - but it could mean something.
Ive speaking with Borut about possibillity for making "ekstra" spark, with twin spark orsomething producing more spark energy.
Im also speaking with him about if they can make the CDI's with tinned wire - is i think this is a nice touch with the MSD.
Click to expand...
If you are speaking with him, you might wanna throw out the idea of Bluetooth connectivity. Even with tinned wire the exposed programming port is super vulnerable to water. I guess you’d need an on off switch if it was BT though (constant power draw). Maybe just use a simpler programming interface and only expose it through the normal potted wire exit? I wonder why he needs all those wires anyway? Maybe there’s a JTAG interface in there or something idk
 
augustaf

augustaf

Location
central florida
So...... blue tooth connectivity for remote tuning has been requested, "tinned" wire for reliability, "ekstra" (twin) spark, for what?
Custom, tin plated ribbon (extension) cable was not yet mentioned- as well as some others.
Please, stop worrying Borut, he's done a better job than others already.
Further the affiant sayest not....
 
WFO Speedracer

WFO Speedracer

A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
Location
Alabama
I am wondering if some kind of signal converter could be made to allow the MSD pickups and flywheel to be used by converting the MSD signal to something the Zeeltronic can read .
 
Jcary85

Jcary85

Site Supporter
Location
Glenmoore pa
I’d personally like to go the opposite direction and figure out a way to machine 2 “lumps” in the MSD flywheel and mount a stock pickup somewhere for use with MSD flywheel. The fewer MSD components the better imho.
 
Christian_83

Christian_83

Xscream
Location
Denmark
WFO Speedracer said:
I am wondering if some kind of signal converter could be made to allow the MSD pickups and flywheel to be used by converting the MSD signal to something the Zeeltronic can read .
Click to expand...
This is not what we are looking into doing. Although i know alot of MSD pickups out there (it got my fair share). The price of a hall sensor is like 1/10 of a MSD pickup - hence it make sense to swap it out for hall sensor BUT with the intention of running same MSD or MSD style flywheel and pickup plate (with spacer for hall sensor)
 
Christian_83

Christian_83

Xscream
Location
Denmark
Jcary85 said:
If you are speaking with him, you might wanna throw out the idea of Bluetooth connectivity. Even with tinned wire the exposed programming port is super vulnerable to water. I guess you’d need an on off switch if it was BT though (constant power draw). Maybe just use a simpler programming interface and only expose it through the normal potted wire exit? I wonder why he needs all those wires anyway? Maybe there’s a JTAG interface in there or something idk
Click to expand...
I will ask, but i dont think the BT is gonna happen, eventho it would be cool. I asked about making loose wires for the programmer lead (last time i talked with him about it, i guess thats 2 years ago lol) that would be possible, just to make the most "water proof" unit.
 
WFO Speedracer

WFO Speedracer

A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
Location
Alabama
I can understand the value of using readily available off the shelf parts versus something that is no longer supported by the manufacturer.
 
Jyzmbe

Jyzmbe

Location
Plano, TX
Christian_83 said:
This is not what we are looking into doing. Although i know alot of MSD pickups out there (it got my fair share). The price of a hall sensor is like 1/10 of a MSD pickup - hence it make sense to swap it out for hall sensor BUT with the intention of running same MSD or MSD style flywheel and pickup plate (with spacer for hall sensor)
Click to expand...

This idea I like. Would the magnet in the flywheel need to be changed? I heard the msd magnet was not the proper strength to work accurately with the Hall effect sensor


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