Freestyle Feedback on Mag impellers in OEM pumps

[D-Roc]

and don't be afraid to try a bit more after that to dial it in. If your doing it all, then yeah buy everything a builder tells ya. Some people do actually create setups that they have made to work and not all at once. There are tons of guys here that know there stuff and got there by being that guy. It is just tough to figure out pumps when people say they don't work but didn't try every option for the part. A true mag pump with all the accessories is crazy money. I hope someday i find one and tell myself i need it that bad, and i won't need it that bad ever, but hey if i am buying things i don't really need i might as well go big, i wonder what size lee stone's pump is to make it go that far in that short of time.

 

[Jr Freestyle]

Lee stone is also running a 1200cc motor

 

[D-Roc]

yeah i know but what size pump does all the thrusting to make him go that far that fast? its nuts.

 

[Jr Freestyle]

This thread is like beating a dead dog

 

[motoman96]

This thread is like beating a dead dog

Amen! You give solid advice with proof, an people just have there own theory of what works or how to make it work. Kinda funny actually, it all comes down to basics of how the system works.

 

[Billybo455]

i'm not sure since they went to the 1200, but before that i believe they were running 145 kawi mags. short of all 3 pump cones, the jetmaniac mag is the same thing, but way way cheaper.

 

[D-Roc]

why? we haven't had a good discussion about pumps in awhile. no one is mad at eachother and getting the thread locked. with all of the people and pump combos out there we can discuss and learn. i have learned more about mag pumps today than ever. lol. don't be mad if you get recommended a 148 for your new xfs with that motor. haha. j/k jd.

 

[motoman96]

It's basic common sense, if you don't have the motor to push a big pump, it's a waste of time/money. You can have the baddest motor, but if your pump is too big an can't push it, it's useless. I personally would rather have a pump setup that I know my motor can push, an get top performance from what I have. Who wants to dick around with pulling there pump every ride to switch cones or props to find a happy medium? I would rather hit the start button an ride.

Bigger pump means more load on the motor, if it can't overcome that load, your screwed. Yeah you may be able to find a combo to work, but how much time an money is that cost?

 

[D-Roc]

know i don't know what works and this is why i am talking about it. i know now that Jr changed his pump to a smaller one and it worked better. what does that prove except that following the advice of a buillder is good. we all know that too. but what about how the pump works and why. he was told that and it was a good move but what if he did try a different prop and reduction nozzle etc. a 1200 pushing a 145 is amazing, i would have thought 148 or bigger for sure. see that is good info if it is true. whatever pump can do that is amazing i think , so does that mean that the 145 is maxed out for the 1200? can it also work with a 148? you would have to think that if you put the time into it, it would. problem is people don't want to and just do what is recommended which should be a base point, IMO.

 

[D-Roc]

so what is too big for a 148 and too small for the 144?
i would rather have a pump that works the motor because it is always pumping than a motor that is over snappy and does nothing.

 

[motoman96]

Lol, too many variables to say. You can have a 10k hull with a stock 701 motor an stock pump setup. It's like asking what's better synthetic oil or standard oil, your gonna have a million diff answers.

 

[D-Roc]

thats right so how can a builder tell you the exact best combo. they know their stuff but like i said there too many different buyers with different setups for them to dial in personally. I think that the tuning part of building ski is getting lost. I know it is the safest bet to follow the leader, but not trying other stuff is not going to allow you to know for sure if it was good or bad. jd tried the 148 with one prop combo from what i am gathering. then picked up the phone. i alway watch the movie for myself.

 

[motoman96]

Cuz the builder knows what works with there setups if they know what there doing.

 

[D-Roc]

okay, i know that people totally say to follow their builders and i haven't heard of any of them making bad calls. but whate about everyone that comes across their setups over the years. I bought my new motor but didn't call the builder to find out my prop combo. I don't even know what pitch i have. i do know that it works my motor and makes my ski rip. i know it made an 828 work great too. i do know that the octane i rode and my kawi had 140 pumps that made them go fast but no bottom end. i know the one mag pump i tried was a 148 with an under powered motor but it worked better than a 750cc kawi 140 oem pump and the 777 octane mag 140 for bottom end. I just think that the 148 should be very usable for a BB PV motor. especially if like jetmaniac was saying that the 144 was made for a 650. sorry for being stubborn guys i just like to dig into the facts and sometime need a bit of bickering to bring out good debates on the subject. no hard feelings right guys?

 

[motoman96]

Lol, not at all man. I found it quite entertaining actually. As far as building your own setups, there's still people you can call to get you close. You think cuz a person bought a pair of blackjacks an calls Art, he says sorry you didn't buy em from me so I can't help you? No!

 

[D-Roc]

Cool, then lets continue. i am saying i don't need art to help me because i am willing to try it out and see if i can make it work better or worse. it is amazing at how much can be done over the phone and jetting is probably alot easier than figuing out a pump combo on a ski that your not riding. if there is something i am proud on my ski, it is the fact that no gave me my jetting specs, no one gave me my timing curve or pipe adjustment, no one recommended my pump setup. I was thinking of upgrading my reduction nozzle on my pump setup to a moflow protec or maybe just get the skat one. I only see the 148 with the adjustable rings and the 144 is a cut to spec. if i am spending the money, i kinda want the adjustability of it. i don't know if the 148 reduction nozzle will fit on the 144 housing.

 

[Watty]

Not many people out there have the money or the time to test different pumps and prop sizes, so they will go with something that they know works. Is it ideal? Probably not, but the engine runs well and hooks up nice, so they go with it.

The same could be said for carb tuning (normal/reverse) and ignition timing. How does one really know unless all these variables are tested together in a certain hull in the water with load on some sort of magical dyno.

There wouldn't be too many boats out there that perform to thier potential 100% because testing every aspect on something that will show a change in performance is very hard to come across for the average rider. I guess what I'm trying to say is that from others time and money, we can have a boat that may not be perfect, but runs well on a proven setup and gets us in the water riding rather than switching parts all the time. Mag pumps are expensive, and not many of us can afford to buy one, let alone two for back to back testing. I'm happy to do what my engine builder tells me if I'm getting what I want/what I asked for from of the engine.

 

[Jr Freestyle]

thats right so how can a builder tell you the exact best combo. they know their stuff but like i said there too many different buyers with different setups for them to dial in personally. I think that the tuning part of building ski is getting lost. I know it is the safest bet to follow the leader, but not trying other stuff is not going to allow you to know for sure if it was good or bad. jd tried the 148 with one prop combo from what i am gathering. then picked up the phone. i alway watch the movie for myself.

Well each prop is $300, so try 3 different ones and spend another 900 or talk to someone who knows there stuff and pay one time and get it right.???
You were just complaining that you won't spend 600 dollars more to get a mag but you would of tried every avenue if you were me.. You make no sense

 

[OCD Solutions]

The learning process can be expensive but still well worth it. As frustrating and sometimes contradicting as this whole conversation has been, i can't fault droc for wanting to know and learn. I went thru a very similar odyssey with a build several years ago and learned a ton about carbs, pumps, pipes and porting. I learned that I was going down a road that had been paved by many others already and that I could save alot of money by listening to the right people but more importantly, i had to first learn enough about the subject that I could understand what I was being told.

I never take anyones word at face value unless i have an established history of trust with them. I listen to what they have to say and bounce it against what I know to be true and build my own knowledge based on the summary. Sometimes it gets frustrating when getting into uncharted territory but in the end you end up with a much better understanding and a better level of clarity to what others have been saying all along. This is the difference between truly learning a subject and just memorizing the details.

A very smart teacher once said to me "If it worked right the first time, what would we have learned?". His words stuck with me and I have built a career out of solving problems.

 

[D-Roc]

this has been a good dicussion and i do want to learn about the mag pumps, not just get told to ask your builder. I have no builder. Its me, trying for the last 10 years to sort out the crap and use the good. I like to know why it is better and need to be convinced. Usually not by people that have been on here for a year, or someone that have engine builders tell them every move they should make. of course a builder can relate his experience and say. "i use the 144 mag pump this way to hookup because"....or " i use the 140 so that the ski can pull higher speeds". I am kinda hoping someone that runs the 148 mag and has made it to work, relate some info of how to do it. maybe it isn't possible or maybe it is and people don't share how to do it. If the 148 is too big for a 845cc pv motor and it kills bottom end then it makes me wonder why? Then I get thinking how come people i know that had 144 mags setup to run a 5mm lamey end up putting in a 701 temporarily, and itworks awesome and way better than a 701 with the stock pump. Is it working the motor that much more or is it just flowing and hooking up better thus making it a kick ass combo for a wide range of motors. And then there was the 148 mag getting powerd by the limited 701. These are facts that still keep me from being totally convinced the 144 is the best choice. what good is a discussion forum if we can not discuss. Ask your engine builder is not the answer i am looking for. lol.