WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Dammit busted for using reasoning and logic again, oh well guilty as charged.
French hull discussion
- Thread starter MANFISH66
- Start date
yamaslut
kill it
- Location
- Daytona Beach, Florida
you got something to say, go ahead and say it...
if you are a
and can't get the words out, I understand.. ha ha
Idok
F1pro
- Location
- Nations oldest muthaF+++kin city
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
yeah, but I bet he copied them. friggin copier. :biggrin:
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snowxr
V watch your daughters V
- Location
- Waterford, MI
Yeah, I remember a guy building a kawadoo featured in an issue of Splash magazine around 88 (skidoo 580 snowmobile engine with powervalves in a 550 hull). He made a titanium pole mount and bedplate for his 550, too. And an aluminum tank! He was the man. Come to think of it, he made the exhaust, too. I'll call him Pioneer Man.
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
yeah, look at pjs and westcoast from back in the day when they released their hi-po reed cylinders. people were cutting up kx250 dirtbike cylinders and welding the reed intakes onto aluminum 440 cylinders with 550 size sleeves pressed into them long before those two companies ever factory produced them. friggin copiers.
I'm glad people are making stuff, because when companies that make this stuff start deciding "screw it", there will still be some companies making stuff.
I'm glad people are making stuff, because when companies that make this stuff start deciding "screw it", there will still be some companies making stuff.
ArtMaybee
I'm Baaaack!
- Location
- Mobile, AL
OK, I'm glad the guy decided to make a hull.. It looks like a nice hull. It doesn't look exactly like a rickter hull. It is close but oh well..
The only real problem I have would be buying a part from a guy who says the price of his hull is warranted because of how much better vacuum bagged epoxy would be compared to anything else. Epoxy is good, I will give him that. But the differeneces between epoxy and vinyelster for use in a hull when they are both vacuum bagged or resin infused is almost negligable. Epoxy is better in some ways and Vinylester has it's advantages as well. The part i read that made me HAVE to find this and post is...... The builder mentions a need to place a layer of chopped mat between the other layers of reinforcement to prevent delamination.. WTH? The only time you would come close to NEEDING chopped mat of any sort would be using surfacing veil between gel coat and the normal reinforcement layup. That is only to prevent print through of the weave on the surface of the gel coat. You don't even need that if you are ok with having the weave pattern showing through. OR wet sanding and buffing once the initial shrinking has taken place.
The guy lumped ployester resin and vinylester resin together as having similar performance and drawbacks. I've never seen a part made with vinylester and done properly delaminate. Just because vinylester can have similar cure times (but doesn't always), does not make it even remotely the same as polyester. Though polyester doesn't require chopped mat between reinforcement layers to prevent delam either.
I know personally of some very large and advanced composites parts being made with vinylester/sglass/carbon. The builders in this case could use any resin system they choose. And the customer ( a really big one) spec'd out vinyester for the advantages it has.
I was a bit annoyed since the guy's comment was aimed at making the builders who do use vinylester look bad or make their product look inferior in comparison to his own. I'm sure his product is perfectly fine. But if somebody wants to make comments about how his stuff is better than somebody else's.. he should at least give some valid reasons for that difference... Would a properly done vacuumed part be better than the same part using wet layup? sure.. Would a hand laid part with the proper layup schedule for reinforcements be better than a vacuum bagged part with piss poor layup schedule? yup..
The only real problem I have would be buying a part from a guy who says the price of his hull is warranted because of how much better vacuum bagged epoxy would be compared to anything else. Epoxy is good, I will give him that. But the differeneces between epoxy and vinyelster for use in a hull when they are both vacuum bagged or resin infused is almost negligable. Epoxy is better in some ways and Vinylester has it's advantages as well. The part i read that made me HAVE to find this and post is...... The builder mentions a need to place a layer of chopped mat between the other layers of reinforcement to prevent delamination.. WTH? The only time you would come close to NEEDING chopped mat of any sort would be using surfacing veil between gel coat and the normal reinforcement layup. That is only to prevent print through of the weave on the surface of the gel coat. You don't even need that if you are ok with having the weave pattern showing through. OR wet sanding and buffing once the initial shrinking has taken place.
The guy lumped ployester resin and vinylester resin together as having similar performance and drawbacks. I've never seen a part made with vinylester and done properly delaminate. Just because vinylester can have similar cure times (but doesn't always), does not make it even remotely the same as polyester. Though polyester doesn't require chopped mat between reinforcement layers to prevent delam either.
I know personally of some very large and advanced composites parts being made with vinylester/sglass/carbon. The builders in this case could use any resin system they choose. And the customer ( a really big one) spec'd out vinyester for the advantages it has.
I was a bit annoyed since the guy's comment was aimed at making the builders who do use vinylester look bad or make their product look inferior in comparison to his own. I'm sure his product is perfectly fine. But if somebody wants to make comments about how his stuff is better than somebody else's.. he should at least give some valid reasons for that difference... Would a properly done vacuumed part be better than the same part using wet layup? sure.. Would a hand laid part with the proper layup schedule for reinforcements be better than a vacuum bagged part with piss poor layup schedule? yup..
Polish jet pilot
4aces4aces4aces4aces4aces
- Location
- Warsaw, Poland
I am sure that you made some very real points. However keep in mind that he is using an online translator, so meaning can be changed. I guess he could elaborate on his laying techniques....
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Do some reseacrh and you will know why epoxy resin is preferred, below is a link to just one of many articles on the differences between the popular resins.
http://www.redrockstore.com/resin.htm
ArtMaybee
I'm Baaaack!
- Location
- Mobile, AL
This is old but just saw the reply to my post. I'm aware of the differences between epoxy and vinylester resins. And I will still y that vinylester is a very good choice for hull construction. Most people don't even know that vinylester resin is basically epoxy solids in a styrene suspension. And I've seen several BILLION dollar Projects where money is no object. And vinylester resin was specified. I work for a defense contractor. Believe me, if there were any benefit at all in using epoxy, it would have been used. Yes, epoxy is wonderful. Remember that we aren't discussing pre-preg autoclave parts. Pre-preg would change this discussion completely.
My issue was with bagging on other peoples stuff to make his look better. Is epoxy a good solution? Sure! The point is, the differences in performance for a part made correctly with either resin would be negligible. At least when made in smaller less well equipped shops.
My issue was with bagging on other peoples stuff to make his look better. Is epoxy a good solution? Sure! The point is, the differences in performance for a part made correctly with either resin would be negligible. At least when made in smaller less well equipped shops.
ArtMaybee
I'm Baaaack!
- Location
- Mobile, AL
Just looked at link. Some good info... They made a big deal about secondary bonding. We all know to use epoxy on secondary bonds. Many of their downsides to vinylester were in this area. When a part is made with vinylester those bonding concerns are moot. That page was a sales pitch page. And they cited another sales pitch page.
Care to guess what type resins are specified for the really big gray ships we build? Bonds really well to carbon and kevlar too.
Care to guess what type resins are specified for the really big gray ships we build? Bonds really well to carbon and kevlar too.
- Location
- uk
What French hull are we talkin about here ?I can't see any pics or a name ? I'm only adkin as I own a French made hull so if it's the same I can give you plenty of info on it
- Location
- uk
Edit followed some of the links . You a talkin about the hull I own overall .
In terms of build quality it's one of the best I've seen. it's very strong . It's aimed a surf riding and does it very well IMO . It does not ride like a rickter or look like one up close .they are built to order you can choose the gel coat colour etc . Probably work out a little expensive for you guys but it is cheaper than rickter over here not to mention better layup etc . It's just another option for people, if you don't like it that's cool but it is a professional business not some back street knock off . I'm a little dissapointed that some other hull manufacturers would come on here an start bashing this hull after what they went through on here but oh well
In terms of build quality it's one of the best I've seen. it's very strong . It's aimed a surf riding and does it very well IMO . It does not ride like a rickter or look like one up close .they are built to order you can choose the gel coat colour etc . Probably work out a little expensive for you guys but it is cheaper than rickter over here not to mention better layup etc . It's just another option for people, if you don't like it that's cool but it is a professional business not some back street knock off . I'm a little dissapointed that some other hull manufacturers would come on here an start bashing this hull after what they went through on here but oh well
- Location
- uk
- Location
- uk
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- Location
- uk
- Location
- uk
Ok so the red and black one is mine the purple one is being used by jake matadon at the 1st two free ride rounds . He absolutely beat the crap out that thing and it never missed a beat ( he's also an awesome rider hopefully you will se at surf slam )
the hull lengthwise is between an xfs ans fr if you line it up with an xfs it's the same length but look underneath and where the back of the ski I missing on the bottom deck on xfs the overall Is the same length top and bottom . It's super stable . The top deck is very wide but the bottom deck at the rear is still pretty narrow like sj . The tray is huge ! Like the first time you ride a fr from an sj and think wow there's loads of room it's the same again on this going from fr to overall ! It also has built in front foot hold . Some other interesting bits are a double hood seal, no hood hooks just a strap , scupper that runs from next to the intermediate housing ie the lowest point in the ski .
The guys sent me pics of the ski all through its build . They told me 6 weeks , it was ready in 6weeks and 3 days lol . I can post some build pics if anyone is interested . Everything bolts straight over from sj very easily and for me at least alignment was perfect . Also as far as I'm aware it's the only hull to come with a warranty
If you want any other info please ask me and I will try to help or ask the builders themselfs for you .
the WaTeRhAwK
fryin' up a/m electrics..
- Location
- okc
They need to sharpen the nose side to side a bit.
loictahiti
Site Supporter
- Location
- Tahiti, french polynesia
no it's specialy for no splash water