How many standup riders are in the US?

[Idok]

And non-site sponsors (advertisers really) are allowed to bash equally as well, without being banned. Also, non-site sponsors can post and hawk their products/services for free here.

In other words, everyone gets pretty much the same treatment whether you're a sponsor or not.

i do like that aspect...




and I guess if sponsortisers want to make asses of themselves whining and bitching about competition, eventually that will work itself out

 

[FL-cracker]

edwin, you are being the guinee (sp!) pig here......... (This post is not directed at one person in general - and please, don't try to read between the lines and assume I am talking about any one individual )

Guys, with comments like this going on, this is what is causing this site problems, new members will not come here, old members are not posting anymore because of all the Drama........... This mess has to stop. and stop now. Why? Because we are tired of it.......... plain and simple....... You all know what Chick's business deals with? that is where this site is going at the rate we are moving.

about 2 months ago there was an event that took place in florida, I was unable to make it, but I got a package in the mail on Friday that said "Do Not Open Until Sat. Night"... I waited, then Paul called and told me to open it. Guess, that plaque you sent me made me feel really good........... I was proud of this site and all the members, yeah, we have our moments...... But guess what, I am almost ashamed of this site now, the people, the whole aura of it.... everybody's attitudes have gone to ********.......... You have members bashing each other because of their opinions, you have members getting into fights over the color of a Superjet, You have Aftermarket Mfg's voicing negitive comments toward other competitors, ( I was taught that when it comes to the competition to just be polite, keep your opinions to your self, just say "Yeah, he has some nice stuff" and leave it at that - You only make yourself look cocky, arrogant, stupid by commenting ), to members turning a thread about another freeride location into total crap because they feel that the organizers job is for-most to find a location where they could drink...... Guys, this crap has to stop............... This site was started to try and bring a "POSSITIVE OUTLOOK INTO THE FREESTYLE / FREERIDE COMMUNITY" So far it looks like we started out really good, but have since decided to kick back and just let nothing but negitive attiudes direct which way to go.... Who's fault is it??? ...... remember Pauls Motto when this site started??? say it to yourself and think about it.............

Some changes are most likely going to happen around here so, you might want to do some reflection on how you view yourselves as part of this community............. because some of you may end up being outside........

I hope that everyone reads this:hail: :biggthumpup: It realy does start getting old.

 

[Idok]

sorry bk.. i've had a few pm's with royal flush over the last few months telling him i'm done with the condescending/disrespectful tone he has taken towards me for a long time now. i have taken it to pm's with him... and just after that post, he pm'ed me an apology for bringing up the whole ride plate mess, what he shouldve done was post it here. i'm over that whole mess, done with it... but if someone wants to bring it up and start crap with me, it will be dealt with.

the problem here is the whole friend/clique/bashing mess we always run into whenever a WD pops up... and it's always the same 3-4 guys doing the bashing and disrespecting.

sorry, but thats the truth. i don't care if you single me out here to be the bad guy and use me to make an example/point.... at this point, i'm pretty much used to it. whatever.

.........mostly its just 2

 

[GDFL]

:grouphug: :beerchug: Anyone need a beer and a hug?

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

YES!

NO!

:grouphug: :beerchug: Anyone need a beer and a hug?

 

[tom21]

coming from an automotive background it was a huge shock what things cost for a ski. 100 bucks for a friggin cable and on and on. its a luxury item and is priced accordingly. I probably won't ever be able to afford 90% of the aftermarket products out there, and can only admire the parts and crafts and skills out there. but the one thing that does strike a chord with me is that there are more and more new shops and products coming to the market and this can only be good for us all. more competition will help to provide more choices and better prices and hopefully not loose the quality along the way.

think of what the first bicycle was and is now, same goes for cars and motorcycles, planes, boats and so on. where is the standup heading? only ones imagination can tell. corny but true. will there be a day when something stronger and lighter than the best available materials today can build is only run of the mill? of course there will. the only question is will you be the first one to pay to be at the front or will you still be talking on your 10 Lb cell phone while listening to your boombox with forty D batteries saying how gay those guys with the new fangled skis are. the future is coming, you can be a part of it or you can be stuck in the past.

And what the heck does any of this have to do with the sport? really? its not about the ski its about the people. it is easy to prove that the ski is not relavant here as there are plenty of guys to do nearly everything that is done today-ten years ago on a wimpy 650 with no footholds. So let it go.....and get back to what is important. the friends and the times we share. If JK is not proof of that and how it can all be taken away in a second then I don't know what is.

 

[Big Kahuna]

sorry bk.. i've had a few pm's with royal flush over the last few months telling him i'm done with the condescending/disrespectful tone he has taken towards me for a long time now. i have taken it to pm's with him... and just after that post, he pm'ed me an apology for bringing up the whole ride plate mess, what he shouldve done was post it here. i'm over that whole mess, done with it... but if someone wants to bring it up and start crap with me, it will be dealt with.

the problem here is the whole friend/clique/bashing mess we always run into whenever a WD pops up... and it's always the same 3-4 guys doing the bashing and disrespecting.

sorry, but thats the truth. i don't care if you single me out here to be the bad guy and use me to make an example/point.... at this point, i'm pretty much used to it. whatever.

edwin, please go back and read my first line............... not getting on to you, I just used your High Horse comment as an example............. nothing more.......... If I was, I would have sent you a PM.............

 

[Big Kahuna]

sorry.. venting.. just trying to highlight.. every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

i just dont understand why these Waterdawg threads STILL turn into this crap.. even after all the positive stuff he has done lately.... people need to step off, let shiot go.. you don't see me going into every wcf thread and crapping on his stuff.... seriously.. move on.. i dont even comment on that stuff anymore when people bring it up to me in person.. let it go.. move on..[/QUOTE]


my point exactly...........but, to many the site is no fun without the drama.

 

[yamaslut]

sorry.. venting.. just trying to highlight.. every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

i just dont understand why these Waterdawg threads STILL turn into this crap.. even after all the positive stuff he has done lately.... people need to step off, let shiot go.. you don't see me going into every wcf thread and crapping on his stuff.... seriously.. move on.. i dont even comment on that stuff anymore when people bring it up to me in person.. let it go.. move on..[/QUOTE]

I like cheese.........

 

[RiverRat]

I'm with you too.


I also worry he's spreading himself kind of thin since he is a one-man show essentially. Maros had that problem, he always had problems finding people to lay up footholds/smaller stuff that were consistent and paid attention to details like he did.

Not really. He has about 3 guys working under him in composites and Chris to do the billet machining, not to mention top of the line equipment that produces parts quickly. He can offer stuff at a cheaper price b/c he is a composite guy that knows what processes work well and what materials work well. He uses compression molds, chopper gun on the lower end products like hood liners, battery trays and some areas on the glass versions of his hulls. Jeff does most of his R&D b/c the guy rides religously. You don't just make up the X-jet, multible bottom decks, REV hull, dialblo hood, 750sx hood, FX-PRO hull, billet handlepole ect by not knowing your stuff.

As yamaslut was saying, what you guys saw in Daytona is his base line product, his stuff gets more expensive and is of higher quality, just depends on how much you want to spend. He sells allot of stuff to members of the X but that is by no means his largest customer base. He has sold about 20 X-jets and I think around 25+ REV hulls :bigeyes: The REV has only been out for a few months. I think he has sold somewhere in the ball park of 20 1200 motors as well. And all thst stuff is produced in house.......that savings he passes right down to the customer. :cheer:

 

[Fathom]

[*]He's just a coattail riding simpleton w/ no life.
I like the banning idea...:Banane01: :Banane01: :Banane01: :Banane01: :Banane01: :Banane01:

Wow.

 

[RiverRat]

WDK is just one aspect of his business, he also does machining, prototyping, custom composite work ect..........that is $$ right there. Thats where he can makes the cash to have the state of the art equipment to produce parts quickly at a resonable cost. He has madd skills, you guys just see his jetski stuff

 

[yamaslut]

yeah... the hull at Daytona was the lowest cost model he makes...

 

[RiverRat]

And to a certain degree he will bend over backwards to make his customers happy, unless it sacrafices quality. Some items will take a while to produce but the customer will be happy in the end. I think he might achually be losing $$ building my 1/2 prepreg X-jet. He had to drop about $1200 of his own cash to build a high temp mold for the x-jet hood.......not to mention take the time to build the mold and make sure it is perfect. Then he has to block, prime, block, and paint. He already had the high temp molds for the top deck and bottom, but once you factor in all the man hours to produce it and the high dollar materials in the top deck a profit for Jeff would be close. But after this he will have everything ready to do prepreg x-jets.

 

[RoyalFlush@PCB]

And to a certain degree he will bend over backwards to make his customers happy, unless it sacrafices quality.

Insert PVC joke here. That's what everyone doesn't seem to understand. A lot of my comments are merely meant as jokes. :biggthumpup:

Edwin, you want an apology in this thread? You got it.

Same as in the PM:

"I went overboard with bringing up the rideplate thing.

For that, I apologize.

Now, when can I ride that TKO hull?!? :cool2:"

Feel better? :biggrin:

Let's not forget that for awhile, you were a WCF supporter and when the s**t hit the fan there were several threads that you bombarded with "bashing and disrespecting" along with three or four others. It's that whole friend/clique thing you mentioned. Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. :sneaky:

I actually agree with Harrison and others that Steve should tone down his responses in some of the threads, but he has every right to speak his mind if he chooses to. I have always attempted to talk good about competitors if I felt obligated to say anything at all about them. It's just good business practice. :biggthumpup:

I tend to agree with Steve and others that this new product pricing strategy is possibly a bad thing for the business as a whole. If Jeff is employing 3 persons plus himself and they all were making a mere ten dollars per hour he would have $83,200 in expenses before FICA, SS, Workman's Comp, etc. I'd bet his labor alone would easily be $100,000 for the year. If hoods were his only income (which I understand that it isn't) he would have to produce 250 hoods to just pay his help for the year. Does he have 250 customers? Probably not. Which is why he produces other work within the shop including other ski parts and some that probably doesn't even fall into the jetskiing category. Let's face it, if I had hundreds of thousands in CNC equipment, I wouldn't choose to produce only products in such a niche sport. As a businessman, I would love to know his true numbers of what he makes versus what it costs him to produce JUST these jetski products---I'd be willing to bet that Jeff would realize that he would NEED to raise his prices in order to thrive. Maybe his losses are absorbed by his other activities in the shop. :dunno: I just can't see the math working any other way---but what do I know, I'm just a simpleton plumber. :banghead:

I just see this mad rush to get his parts, since he is finally coming thru with people receiving them, and then what? It's great for the consumer at the moment, but what if the demand is reduced significantly and he IS FORCED to increase his prices in order to stay in business? Will all of his old supporters still buy his products when the prices go up? Will you all defend him if, hypothetically speaking, his products don't for some reason hold up to the abuse?

As it has been said, TIME WILL TELL.

These are just my opinions, guys---no need to get all worked up about them. :biggrin:

 

[RoyalFlush@PCB]

its impossible to forget. all you do is bring it up every chance you get.

maybe i should remind you everyday of when you tried to hide behind some fake BS user account you created just to bash jason stoyer..remember that?

I remember quite well. I also came clean when I realized that I needed to. Why does this one issue bother you so much? :dunno:

Mike Young, Jason Stoyer, and I talked about this very situation just a few weeks ago when Stoyer was up here in Panama City assisting Mike with some of his Spring Break events. We even watched an exciting match of Shuffleboard behind their condo. :haha: It's water under the bridge and a non-issue between Jason and I as far as I know. He made his points, I made mine, and we both walked away without bitchin' and moanin'.

And please, by all means, show me where I remind you "everyday" about this situation. That IS what you are implying in your post.

 

[RoyalFlush@PCB]

just mind your own business.

Done. :biggthumpup:

 

[djkorn1]

Bickering aside. There are always new people coming into the sport, plus...

If people like his footholds and hoods... they may move up to an entire hull or 900 motor. I think Jeff finally gets it with his business plan. Happy customers will buy other products. A year ago nobody would have bought from him. How the tides have changed. The sport is growing quickly. People keep upgrading their skis with the newest parts!

(example: X Metal) How many ditched their UMI steering and handlepoles for an X metal setup? Companies come and go... its the ones that keep innovating that stay around.

(Ocean Pro, Westcoast, PJS, Coffmans, all chose to sit on what they had allready made and now they are gone)

Factory Pipe might be gone next....Someone is going to build a cheaper better B Pipe and steal that market!
Same with UMI... they might leave watercraft... Who is gonna buy their pole or steering when X Metal makes a better one cheaper?

 

[Idok]

excellent points DJ

 

[RiverRat]

I have no doubt that WDK will put some people out of business.........he is well established now and has a he11 of a product line that is hard to compete with. I hope someone does develop better and lighter parts but as of now he has no one to really compete with him. A prepreg REV is 7500, a 24/7 carbon hull is 10K, norbert's hulls are about 10-12K for just the hull..........or you can do a all glass x-jet for 3500 or REV for 4500 all w/ hood and brackets!! :bigeyes: He is taking over.....its nothing personal, he is just being a smart. He even has more parts on the way that has not even been released yet If he gets a parts dept rolling he will be the one stop shop for high performance jetski's!! Not only that but if you are an engine builder I would start tinkering with the gp motors b/c those platforms will slowly start taking over in flatwater. More R&D is going and once dialed in Same story different chapter