How's this for a nights work?

[Idok]

1) We have never seen a defective laby in 10 years of doing this. For that reason, my production guys did not think to measure it. Quite honestly, we are going to be shocked if its too big. Yamaha is very good at such things. Now it could be a Hot Rod or Wiseco laby and that would be a different story. And it's also possible that it is "donut" shaped from getting dropped or something, but we have never seen that either. I am sorry we didn't measure the labby sooner, but it was just not something we thought of at the time.

2) Not sure I understand the question, but yes the OE is turned on a lathe. We blast it clean using an abrasive media that changes the surface finish, but does not change the dimensions (unless it is accidently left in the blasting machine for a week, and it would be smaller, not bigger). And remember, the SBT laby is simply a cleaned up OE laby. We don't make our own.

now wait a minute.

What do you mean noone thought to measure it? This is PRECISELY the reason that Eric drove to Clearwater...He actually saw you that day, but you were involved with something in the tech dept. He told Chris, Julie, and even stephanie time and time again that it was too big. Did noone believe him? Even after he provided measurements???

then again when we spoke with Julie and returned the cases/crank again a week later the same story.......Noone STILL bothered to measure it then? :thinking:


the drive from st. aug to clearwater is over 3 hours........not just down the street..Did I mention that I funded this trip to clearwater as well?



I just dont understand.

 

[Greg Pickren]

Needless to say, we are eager to get it measured. Sorry for the drive.

 

[waxhead]

If i can add some info on this
we had a wisco crank and no matter what we did it would not spin when we tightened up the bolts
We tried everything
it wasnt the pins or anything
this crank was brand new
we took it back to the wiseco guys and they found no issue with it so we looked over it again
we found that the labarynth seal had a small amount of run out in it
we ended up redrilling the locating hole in the seal which moved the seal 90 degrees
and all was fixed
this crank has been running for 3 years now
some times intolrances do slip in

 

[sjetrider]

Greg seems leggit. That being said I hope this is resolved with Scott benifiting from the head ache it has caused as well. Like send the crank and cases in and get a fully assembled new/ refurbished bottom end back w/ a gasket kit or something saying sorry for the head ache. I do know that it is hard to find a manufacturer of these seals as I tried to find one for a Blaster crank and couldnt even buy it from Yamaha.
If I were rebuilding cranks, I would think I would have a pefectly in spec (new) set of cases mounted somewhere to test ea. crank in before shipping.
Kind of a quick quality check to in spec. cases and these cases could also serve as a guide when refurbishing old cases. But maybe that is overkill if you have all specs. on hand?

 

[Greg Pickren]

Every crank off the line is indeed case checked as part of our quality program. The crank in question has been case checked at least twice. That's what makes this all the more interesting/confusing for us.

Greg Pickren
SBT

 

[Idok]

Greg seems leggit. That being said I hope this is resolved with Scott benifiting from the head ache it has caused as well. Like send the crank and cases in and get a fully assembled new/ refurbished bottom end back w/ a gasket kit or something saying sorry for the head ache. I do know that it is hard to find a manufacturer of these seals as I tried to find one for a Blaster crank and couldnt even buy it from Yamaha.
If I were rebuilding cranks, I would think I would have a pefectly in spec (new) set of cases mounted somewhere to test ea. crank in before shipping.
Kind of a quick quality check to in spec. cases and these cases could also serve as a guide when refurbishing old cases. But maybe that is overkill if you have all specs. on hand?

as of right now my cost in this:

crank: 250.00
seals/gaskets: 150.00 (2 complete sets wasted)--we do not re-use them.
1 set of cases (61x) SBT advised me to modify---I was rec'd to mod my T cases as well but I said ABSOLUTELY NOT

Labor to EPE racing.....I dont know, 10 hours + at this point (not including a day trip to CW).....Good thing Eric is part of the core 4 St. Aug crew..but he typically bills for 65/hour

Gas for the trip to CW--75.00

My time and aggravation....I dont know, but I bill out at 185.00 an hour




At this point all I want is a refund for the crank, core charge for the cases (or new ones), and 2 complete gasket kits. I will eat the labor and fuel charges, and they can even keep my core.

after all this I feel that is fair. I just want to ride.

 

[Idok]

Every crank off the line is indeed case checked as part of our quality program. The crank in question has been case checked at least twice. That's what makes this all the more interesting/confusing for us.

Greg Pickren
SBT

Chris personally witnessed this crank rocking in the X AND T cases...

 

[sjetrider]

WOW, I would say your being generous Scott. Have you already asked them for this?

 

[Idok]

yup

 

[sjetrider]

Thats no encouraging news.

 

[Idok]

I am SURE that sbt's customer service will shine.

 

[butti]

If i can add some info on this
we had a wisco crank and no matter what we did it would not spin when we tightened up the bolts
We tried everything
it wasnt the pins or anything
this crank was brand new
we took it back to the wiseco guys and they found no issue with it so we looked over it again
we found that the labarynth seal had a small amount of run out in it
we ended up redrilling the locating hole in the seal which moved the seal 90 degrees
and all was fixed
this crank has been running for 3 years now
some times intolrances do slip in

wax that sounds like exactly what we have going on with this crank.we actually bounced around the idea of clocking the divider but did not want to void the warranty

 

[Aka Kane]

SBT,

Do the right thing.

Please

 

[Greg Pickren]

Scott,

Here's what we found:

1) The crank dimensions are fine. The laby is OE Yamaha and measures exactly the same as the 50 or so we measured last week (2.835"). All of the bearing OD's also measure good (2.834").

2) We cannot make the crank "rock". We case checked it in your case and our own test case and we find no problems with it. The holes in the bearings are within spec and are not interfering with the case pins.

3) The case halves you are using are in pretty bad shape. As my technical manager said, "we throw away cases better than that". We are going to try and clean them up for you. You have a lot of deposits and corrosion on the bearing surfaces that could be causing some of the "rocking" you have been noticing. You also have some hardened case sealant on the rear seal surface of the lower case half that needs to be removed for the seal to fit properly. We will get it off for you. I personally think the condition of your cases might be contributing to the engine failures that you have had.

4) You have one pin in your case that is ground flush. I realize that you mistakenly ground that pin flush after talking to our tech guys and we will put a new pin in it for you.

5) The end bearing on the crank feels a little rough to us (like there may be some debris in it) and we suppose it's from one of the previous engine failures. It probably would be OK, but we are going to utilize our one year fault free warranty policy and give you another crank.

6) So in summary, you are going to get a new crank from SBT and we will give it our best shot at refurbishing the case halves that you sent to us. We will test the new crank with the refurbished cases and make sure that it does not rock before shipping it back to you.

Thanks
Greg Pickren
SBT

 

[Big Kahuna]

hmm, seems pretty fair, you can see the buildup there at the crank seal locations.....

 

[douglee25]

Couple of things I noticed from the pics....

1. The cases do in fact look questionable and Greg's points could be well taken.

2. When you measure diameters of bearings, etc, I was always taught to use a micrometer for better accuracy as opposed to a set of calipers. Could the other method provide more insight?

Doug

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

the calipers are not the ideal way,a pie tape would be a much more accurate method.

but, for this purpose, its probably good enough.

I have to say here, that I am a bit surprised that areas in the cases where the bearings fit are so dirty?

that would seem like the very first thing to check if you had fitment problems?

is there more to it guys?

Couple of things I noticed from the pics....

1. The cases do in fact look questionable and Greg's points could be well taken.

2. When you measure diameters of bearings, etc, I was always taught to use a micrometer for better accuracy as opposed to a set of calipers. Could the other method provide more insight?

Doug

 

[Greg Pickren]

It was reported to us that the "SBT" laby was 0.0035" too big. This is a big enough problem to find with calibers. If we were looking for tenths of thousands, we would use a micrometer. We use micrometers all the time building four stroke engines -- such as when we match the main bearings to the crankshaft and the tolerance is plus/minus 0.0003". There is no question in our mind that the OE Yamaha laby on the SBT crank is within specification and is not a problem on this crankshaft.

Greg Pickren
SBT

 

[douglee25]

It was reported to us that the "SBT" laby was 0.0035" too big. This is a big enough problem to find with calibers. If we were looking for tenths of thousands, we would use a micrometer. We use micrometers all the time building four stroke engines -- such as when we match the main bearings to the crankshaft and the tolerance is plus/minus 0.0003". There is no question in our mind that the OE Yamaha laby on the SBT crank is within specification and is not a problem on this crankshaft.

Greg Pickren
SBT

Greg,

Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation.

Doug

 

[ewok]

crank issues

I am the one that measurd the labby and found this out. The runout on the labby was .0015 at the smallest point and as .0035 at the largest point. My measurments were correct. I measured this with a vernier micrometer, not a digital caliper, I think if sbt was to measure this at different points all around the labby they would see this.I have built motors for formula atlantic race cars(small indy type cars)formula ford 2000,and c-spec racers. I am also a Factory trained DUCATI tech and am also factory trained by yamaha.I make sure all of my measurments are accurate. I measure everything three times because there is no room for error when there is money or points on the line.
My motors have won many pro races at the highest levels.AMA,SCCA,Nhra,ect. At this point i don't think we will ever find the thruth about the crank that scott orriginally received.In my book, It was wrong.POint said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I'm out.____________________________E.:tapedshut: