Msd Enhancers Are Same As Stock ????

hangtime

hangtime

Speak up ,don't kiss azz
Location
WORCESTER,MASS- HAMPTON N.H.
Big Kahuna said:
The hotter the spark, the better chance of igniting all of the fuel/air charge. That is a nutshell discription. Also, if it is sparking multiple times vs one time, then it is the same, better chance of all of the charge burning.
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I don't think I'm buying that .If you have compressed concentrated gas vapors and you use a match or a torch to ignite it it's all going to be consumed regardless .What a bunch of shiat :fing02:
 
ski4

ski4

gonzo
Location
cleveland
ive never seen the combustion chamber during combustion
however there is a lot of turbulence and what not
i suspect that plays into it

no to mention a match is a continuous spark

im no engineer just thoughts in my head
 
Big Kahuna

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
hangtime said:
I don't think I'm buying that .If you have compressed concentrated gas vapors and you use a match or a torch to ignite it it's all going to be consumed regardless .What a bunch of shiat :fing02:
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If you have a long enough duration, sure, it will burn all of it, but you do not have a long duration, with each stroke, some of the unburned charge can be sucked out, but if you have a way to more effeciently force the ignition then you will create more power.
 
WAB

WAB

salty nuts
Location
coastal GA
I know my new replacement Advent rocks out compared to the stock CDi. Just got to try it out last night. :arms:

Anybody that is having problems with backfiring/kicking back on starter/etc, call Greg. They had a bad run with crank postion sensor not working correctly.
 
MADMAT

MADMAT

Location
Ohio
I really don't know but I always figured all CDI's are basically the same. I have seen the various qualities of capacitors in general and I assume MSD and Advent just use really good caps and add the adjustable limiter and thats it, right?

I know my chit sparks like mad and I hate bouncing off of limiters.

I think the MSD combined with the JSS wires made a very noticeable difference
from idle to WOT. It just fires hard man!

So what about MSD coils? Same as OEM?
 
ski4

ski4

gonzo
Location
cleveland
MADMAT said:
I really don't know but I always figured all CDI's are basically the same. I have seen the various qualities of capacitors in general and I assume MSD and Advent just use really good caps and add the adjustable limiter and thats it, right?

I know my chit sparks like mad and I hate bouncing off of limiters.

I think the MSD combined with the JSS wires made a very noticeable difference
from idle to WOT. It just fires hard man!

So what about MSD coils? Same as OEM?
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msd coils are NOT the same
different wires etc and also not the same resistance
 
crammit442

crammit442

makin' legs
Location
here
hangtime said:
charles ,please explain how more than one spark can help since after the first spark all the fuel /air mixture is gone and burnt already or is it not
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The issue is that on a normal ignition system(non multiple spark) the plug only fires for a fraction of a second. The fresh intake charge isn't uniformly mixed and in a ready to ignite state. There are pockets of mixture that are lean and some that are rich. If the plug fires in one of these areas there will be a misfire. The sound(sometimes called ring-a-ding) that two strokes make is a direct result of misfires. By using long duration(many degrees of crankshaft rotation) multiple sparks, the chances are much greater that a spark will occur in an area ready to burn and propogate to the rest of the fresh charge. MSD was originally designed with lean burn engines in mind. Lean(and rich) mixtures are difficult to burn. It was discovered that there was a larger margin with fuel/air ratio by using these very hot, long duration, multiple sparks. A lot of people assume that the reason that MSD TL works so well is because of the light flywheel and advanced timing. Those are certainly factors, but a good portion of the performance is the Multiple Spark Discharge of the MSD. For instance, a set of carbs that is 1/8 turn sensitive with an OE ignition will often be forgiving to 1/4 turn on the screws. Hope that makes sense.:veryhappy:
 
hangtime

hangtime

Speak up ,don't kiss azz
Location
WORCESTER,MASS- HAMPTON N.H.
Very good response Charles thank you very much .I understand what you are saying I just can't fathom how such a small charge of fuel and air can be seperated into lean and rich parts and also how it wouldnt be completely mixed when it goes in at such a high rate of speed and with the speed of the crankshaft spinning so fast also .I would think it would be mixed perfectly at that point .

Thanks for your detailed answer regardless .

It still doesn't change the fact that Greg is saying it has the same timing as stock .

Over and out :headbang:
 
Watty

Watty

Random Performance
Location
Australia
WAB said:
I know my new replacement Advent rocks out compared to the stock CDi. Just got to try it out last night. :arms:

Anybody that is having problems with backfiring/kicking back on starter/etc, call Greg. They had a bad run with crank postion sensor not working correctly.
Click to expand...

The bottom line? Greg says a lot of things....

Amongst others, he told me and many others the same thing as above. Over a 3 year period I got the same old tired excuse after I'd been through AT LEAST 10 Advents. Yeah, they're great whe they're running, but starting them damages your bendix and start eventually.

As for the enhancer, if you're happy with a mediocre gain, they're expensive, but if you want the real deal, there's nothing better than total loss. Is the enhancer curve better than stock? Who cares, let it go and buy a real ignition!
 
Mouthfulloflake

Mouthfulloflake

ISJWTA member #2
Location
NW Arkansas
Msd is selling a product, its performance is documented by them, on a website, that hasnt changed in years.

its THAT, compared to some guy selling FEWER ignitions per year, with LESS of a product brandname and website, saying something different?

yeah, im gonna have to go with MSD on this one.

Someone posted that they are all over the map timing curve wise, I can easily see that, given the tolerances in the components, and various running voltages ( stator condition), but to say its the same as stock, I do not believe that to be accurate, factual, or logical.

Ive got an engine on the bench, when I have time.. in a few weeks maybe, Ill strap it down, and cut a flywheel cover, and run a msd back to back with a stock CDI, mark the flywheel up with some tape, and see how it plays out.

I simply dont have time to mess with it right now.
and really, I think the burden of proof should be on the person accusing MSD of false information.




hangtime said:
lake's telling me not to believe everything I hear but wouldn't just blindly believing MSD be the same thing .:stups:
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WAB

WAB

salty nuts
Location
coastal GA
Wattage said:
Amongst others, he told me and many others the same thing as above. Over a 3 year period I got the same old tired excuse after I'd been through AT LEAST 10 Advents. Yeah, they're great whe they're running, but starting them
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've read about your woes with Advent, wattage. All I can say (so far) is the new one does not have any kickback or starting issues....but I won't throw out the stock CDi just yet. :wink:
 
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W

waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
to say a larger spark is better is flawed
Its only better if the rest of your electrics is not up to scratch and it needs to work harder to get the spark down there

the msd used to and i havent put a light on one for a while have more adavance down low and this gave it more grunt but not a lot

The digital ignitions read the pickup and then put in a programmed delay depending on rpm
this is where the real gain is , because you can run big advance
The msd does the same thing but it also uses a lightweigh flywheel and so it hits harder again

The good thing with msd is they are using all there own gaer the proplem for other ignition makers is that you have to use the crappy ol analogue system and then convert it to digital

thats why there is so many issue with digital igntions on yamahas
I dont do ignitions for stock yamahas anymore for this reason
But there is a way around this proplem on yamahas that works awesome and lets you keep your charging as well
 
FLY6584

FLY6584

Location
Clearwater, FL
I posted this review awhile back, but I'll go ahead and post it again. Like I said in the review when I added the MSD Enhancer it was the only part I added at the time and I had ridden the ski just prior to installing it so I really was able to get a feel for the difference and this is what I experienced...

FLY6584 said:
I started a similar thread to this a while back also and I got some different responses so I was unsure whether it would be worth it or not.

Anyways I found a good deal on a new one so I figured I would give it a try.

I had been running a stock cdi previously and then added the MSD by itself without adding any other mods at the same time to see how much of a difference there was(there was already a bpipe, head, and prop on the ski).

This is what I noticed about the MSD Enhancer:

1. The ski started much easier(not that it was hard to start before, but with the MSD enhancer it started almost instantly)

2. The throttle was much crisper and had absolutely no lag(I especially noticed this when reving the ski out of the water). Overall a much snappier throttle response and in my opinion the best reason to buy one.

3. The ski sounded different

4. I noticed a slight gain on the bottom, but it really didn't make the ski pull any harder. Once again the throttle response just improved a lot on the very bottom, but once you were past the initial throttle hit you couldn't tell much of a difference until the pump unhooked or you were in the chop.

5. I definitely noticed a difference when running wide open or messing around in choppy stuff due to not having a rev limiter anymore. I didn't realize how much I was actually on the rev limiter with my stock cdi(modifying the stock cdi will produce the same result though).

Ultimately I am very pleased with the enhancer. I feel the $190 I spent was well worth it and really allowed me to get the most out of my ski being that I already had a bpipe, head, and prop.

I would recommend it, but just don't expect a knock your socks off difference like you would with Total Loss. You will notice a difference and improvement, but you have to decide for yourself if that slight improvement is worth $200-250.:biggthumpup:
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R

restosud

keep in mind that the multiple sparks stop around 3000rpm so if one feels a difference after that,then it's due to different timing and maybe possibly the stronger spark.
i have tried different msd's on one boat with no changes other than switching units and some did seem to pull a little harder than others.this would indicate that all units are not exactly alike.but they all pulled better than the oem cdi.
one guy at msd confirmed that some of the older units didn't have as an aggressive curve as the later models but there was no cutoff date on this.all very vague as other msd techs pleaded ignorance and they excel at that!:toothache:
 
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