- Location
- s florida
I like MSD!
MSD vs Atp flame total loss????
- Thread starter judd17
- Start date
I like MSD!
Have you tried the ATP system?
Aircraftsalz
Thrust built Dasa Power
- Location
- Off site
Steve had problems with the EPIC and cou;dn't make it run right if I recall.
I've been running the Flame for 8 months now... ME & Lucas are running the same motor setup, same hull, same pump... Only differance between the two is MSD TL vs Flame TL. I'm still impressed with my Flame, I think being able to program the curve really helps the ski hit hard off the bottom to mid. Also the Flame FW is lighter than the MSD TL FW....
The little issues I had with the flame was fixed via a Flash.... I have a MSD TL setup sitting here, but I'm not going to swap it over....
Hard to beat having a stock ebox to keep everything dry.....
- Location
- s florida
that's a long story which I don't want to relive!
steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/89034-EPIC-Dyno-Testing
stock ignition against epic.. not quite what your looking for
chris just dyno-ed a flame on a stock stroke motor last week
http://www.youtube.com/user/ATPChris
i dont undertand peoples concerns with a stock ebox, i have never had one leak and where they are positioned water shouldnt be ingested easy... msd brains in the main are out in the open
stock ignition against epic.. not quite what your looking for
chris just dyno-ed a flame on a stock stroke motor last week
http://www.youtube.com/user/ATPChris
i dont undertand peoples concerns with a stock ebox, i have never had one leak and where they are positioned water shouldnt be ingested easy... msd brains in the main are out in the open
- Location
- Rochester, NY
We have a few skis in the area running either MSD or ATP, the ATP is lighter and is a little easier install. When it came in it was already programmed for the motor we asked for so that was a little easier. The MSD works well also. We are a little weary running the TL in the salt water but both have been run in salt water and both performed flawless.
grezzmky
Suckin paint fumes
- Location
- Saint Louis MO
I just ordered a new MSD After listining to Art (Jetworks) go one one of his VERY informitive rants. He explained that the MSD with the multiple spark is very helpful one Very big packages as well as the fact that it will burn fuel better if you are a little rich. He talked about running some tests and told me exactly how much out your jetting could be with no difference in the performance (dont remember the numbers). He convinsed me to go MSD... Thats all I have to go on.
steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
just out of interest, ive always wondered how does multiple sparks help?
how many sparks do you need to ignite your fuel?
if you had a can of gas and dropped a match in would it light? if you dropped a second match in how would the result be different?
how many sparks do you need to ignite your fuel?
if you had a can of gas and dropped a match in would it light? if you dropped a second match in how would the result be different?
Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
Instead of just 1 firing of the spark, it fires off multiple times, this basically gets the fuel air charge burning faster. All this is happening at the blink of an eye. Not all of your charge gets burnt during a cycle with a regular CDI. THis is why they say you can burn more with the MSD if your running a richer mixture.
junkyardj
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
- Location
- barrie ont. canada
i think the multiple spark is bologne, the crazy hot spark that can ark about a foot to hit a ground is what makes up for a poor tuned motor which makes everyone think MSD is the bomb.. i have been running msd for a few years now and love the fact you can run it real FAT on the jets and get away with it but still the nastiest thing i was on had a Flame
i wish i could try them back to back with msd's limited curve vs a properly tuned flame with a awesome curve
i wish i could try them back to back with msd's limited curve vs a properly tuned flame with a awesome curve
masterblaster
X-H2
those a both good points,ive always said it would take a back to back test to tell if the flame or msd could make more power
steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
Has MSD ever proven this?
i really dont get the concept we are talking about two stroke motors here
The reason for the multiple spark is to help burn any residual fuel left from the first combustion. It's not much but like everyone says...every little bit counts. A stock engine works fine with the stock spark. When you raise compression ratio and start adding more air and more fuel necessary for the bigger bore engines, then the stock spark just can't burn all of that fuel in time. If you drop a match in a full bucket of gasoline the odds of it lighting the gas is pretty low. If you drop 2-3 matches immediately behind the first match, your chances of ignition are higher because the flame front is stronger and longer.
I'm an MSD guy myself becuase I was using it before the Flame ever came out. I'm sure the Flame TL is awesome but it's still very expensive. Of course in order to use the full capabilities of your new expensive toy, you need the software and computer lead to program it. Plus if you currently use an MSD TL setup, you have to buy a used e-box with most of the guts just to be able to use it. Since it's going in the stock e-box, you're also limited on what coils and starter solenoids you can use. In a bind, I like knowing I can run to the local motorcycle shop for another coil or to any auto parts or hardware store for another starter solenoid. I do worry about taking my MSD in the salt water but it's rare that I go in salt water so it's less of a big deal. If I ran salt more often, I would put it in a waterproof box or I'd have something else.
I'm an MSD guy myself becuase I was using it before the Flame ever came out. I'm sure the Flame TL is awesome but it's still very expensive. Of course in order to use the full capabilities of your new expensive toy, you need the software and computer lead to program it. Plus if you currently use an MSD TL setup, you have to buy a used e-box with most of the guts just to be able to use it. Since it's going in the stock e-box, you're also limited on what coils and starter solenoids you can use. In a bind, I like knowing I can run to the local motorcycle shop for another coil or to any auto parts or hardware store for another starter solenoid. I do worry about taking my MSD in the salt water but it's rare that I go in salt water so it's less of a big deal. If I ran salt more often, I would put it in a waterproof box or I'd have something else.
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
I think both systems are good for making power. if we are talking about the spark itself, then here is one spark per plug with msd.
here are some pics if i held the starter and kept them sparking with the shutter open.
maybe someone can take a picture of the atp to see if there is anything different?
here are some pics if i held the starter and kept them sparking with the shutter open.
maybe someone can take a picture of the atp to see if there is anything different?
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junkyardj
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
- Location
- barrie ont. canada
imo you burn once and the only help you getting if from more spark energy(hotter spark) and thats debatable if your chit is set up right
dont fall for the gimmicks boys, we know msd works lighter fly wheel/hotter spark/static advance=power right but if you add more to your curve thats worse since you dont get a little pixie dust on it
Chris can you pls put a little snake blood or tiger blood in the newest Flame pls!!!
dont fall for the gimmicks boys, we know msd works lighter fly wheel/hotter spark/static advance=power right but if you add more to your curve thats worse since you dont get a little pixie dust on it
Chris can you pls put a little snake blood or tiger blood in the newest Flame pls!!!
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
Well.......I know you don't want to hear what I have to say, but I am going to say it anywasy. I would much rather have the american tiger blood msd over the atp pixie dust version. The msd is made in U.S. of eh. atp is british. americans make things big, they slapped not one, but two high power coils on the system with room for another. The atp's power to coil (oem) is divided into two and use wasted spark technology. ooooooh. Two trigger plates so ya'll can time front to back cylinders. multi spark discharge? yeah for quicker starts maybe, after 5000 rpms the spark has no time,(IMO.) but the technology is there. where did the technology come from? how about a long history in racing drag car to go-peds worldwide. MSD is america hp at its best. proudly mount that sucker out in the open and watch your penis grow. you don't hide it in a box beside your crumpets and tea bags. does msd crap out right before the huge competition, maybe leaving you with no spark? yes it has happened, but it also has many many many podium placings world wide right up to #1 world champ. Atp does not. both will work for adjustable timing curve and the msd is limited compared to atp. msd says thank you for your purchase we will see you in a year or two.
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Freakrider
X247
- Location
- Tampa Bay area
Has MSD put in writing their system puts out 50,000 volts ? or did I hear that through tech support a few years back ? I watched a spark test on a friend's ski with TL and Wow stand clear of that spark...He had problems riding saltwater even with heavy silicon spray protection and redundant grounds. Also he had two brain boxes go out in one year, tech support surmised it was prolly a capacitor on one box...That said, some people have had good luck riding surf with no problems...they do spool up fast !
50,000 volts and add saltwater...good times ?
50,000 volts and add saltwater...good times ?
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junkyardj
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
- Location
- barrie ont. canada
im currently running a MSD im my boat and love it so its not like im saying it sucks or one is better then the other, im just saying that the multy spark stuff is crap imo
the spark if def crazy out of a msd droc and it looks like a friggin fireworks show but can you prove to me this helps? also i aggree that a hotter spark will burn a rich running motor and that makes alot of power for the average poorly tuned motor
i think it will be cool to try them back to back and thats what im going to do rather then picking sides like everyone does so well here......
the spark if def crazy out of a msd droc and it looks like a friggin fireworks show but can you prove to me this helps? also i aggree that a hotter spark will burn a rich running motor and that makes alot of power for the average poorly tuned motor
i think it will be cool to try them back to back and thats what im going to do rather then picking sides like everyone does so well here......
- Location
- St.catharines, Ontario
well aircraftsalz said that they are running the same set up back to back , and there is no difference. so i agree with what waternut said, msd is more available and cheaper so why would you want the atp if your more limited if it fails, plus what is replacement cost for a brain if it fails compared to msd ???