Freestyle Nozzle length and why?

[wydopen]

if you dont have your steering setup for maximum throw it dosnt even matter cause u arnt using the entire amount of cable throw anyways

Mine turns the same both directions. I started by centering everything first, then adjusting the ball cups. Bars, cable and nozzle centered first. I've seen guys with their cable not centered and either not having equal throw and, or breaking the cable.

see quote above..

once u have the ball moved as close as possible most likley the threaded extender will hit the cable sleeve before u hit the steering stops...you will just have to see once you get it setup...sometimes on those trim specific nozzles you dont have to grind the backside because its already flared to accomodate the trim ring..once the cable position is moved make sure the back of the steering nozzle clears the reduction nozzle so it goes from lock to lock on the turnplate

 

[Matt_E]

adding any length to the end will make it turn more when its extended

This is where you have a fundamental misunderstanding.
As long as the cable is centered when the nozzle is centered, it doesn't matter how long the end of the cable is. (in the same way that rod length doesn't determine stroke)
Of course, if you extend the cable without re-centering it with the nozzle, there is a problem. And a stock steering setup without trim is at the perfect position for the stock adapter. In that situation, the SD adapter would be too long and you couldn't center it.
A trim moves the steering nozzle back and you need the cable end longer.

.does your steering stops on the turnplate hit before that extender hits the sleeve when making a right turn??

I have it set up to where the turnlate hits the center stop right before the cable bottoms out/maxes out.

where is your cable mounted on the tab on the nozzle?? all the way as close as it can get to the nozzle??

Yes

 

[wydopen]

This is where you have a fundamental misunderstanding.
As long as the cable is centered when the nozzle is centered, it doesn't matter how long the end of the cable is. (in the same way that rod length doesn't determine stroke)
Of course, if you extend the cable without re-centering it with the nozzle, there is a problem. And a stock steering setup without trim is at the perfect position for the stock adapter. In that situation, the SD adapter would be too long and you couldn't center it.
A trim moves the steering nozzle back and you need the cable end longer.





I have it set up to where the turnlate hits the center stop right before the cable bottoms out/maxes out.




Yes

if your nozzle is set back then that makes sense..ive seen multiple people running that seadoo adaptor on a stock nozzle and it dosent work..so your nozzle is setback the same distance as the adapter is long?? if you were running that on a stock setup you could still center the nozzle it just wouldnt turn the same both directions..ive tried it..

 

[kevbo]

in theory, a longer nozzle should give more leverage (just like a steering mod on the handlepole) - I tested a few skis with different nozzle setups and to be honest did not see much difference, but again in theory longer should be better LOL

If that theory was valid then a Kawasaki ZXI would not turn at all, its got the shortest one of all. I think Protec figured out that jetskiers naturally think bigger is better and will spend a lot of money to get it.

 

[Matt_E]

if your nozzle is set back then that makes sense..ive seen multiple people running that seadoo adaptor on a stock nozzle and it dosent work..so your nozzle is setback the same distance as the adapter is long?? if you were running that on a stock setup you could still center the nozzle it just wouldnt turn the same both directions..ive tried it..

I agree completely, it would be worse than useless on a stock setup.

 

[wydopen]

I agree completely, it would be worse than useless on a stock setup.

ive seen it lol

wouldnt the adaptor need to be the exact same length as your nozzle is setback for it work properly??

 

[Aquaholic]

Adding to the discussion, on the Thrust trim, I just installed on Rodney's jet, it came with an aftermarket metal nozzle. It didn't have any [Pro tec] markings and appeared to be cut down. i didn't measure it, but it is roughly 20mm longer than an OEM Raider plastic nozzle.

I rode his boat, but couldn't really tell much of a difference between a stock length nozzle. But, I'll need to ride it side by side with mine when I get it together.

I played around with the adjustable nozzle bottom out plate, which I have at the neutral position for where the steering nozzle returns.

The thing that we found curious, was not so much how differently the boat reacted in power 360's or bulldogs...but, that the lever that Thrust supplies with their kit does niot allow for full trim throw. The lever bottoms out against the handlebar and there appears to be about 4 - 5 degrees of throw that is "left on the table".

With the lever at full pull, and the trim lever bottomed against the bar, I can manually move the trim up another 4 -5 degrees.

 

[wydopen]

Mine turns the same both directions. I started by centering everything first, then adjusting the ball cups. Bars, cable and nozzle centered first. I've seen guys with their cable not centered and either not having equal throw and, or breaking the cable.

wydopen, I'm heading to the hardware store for a tap. Good eye on the ball position on my nozzle dude! Thanks.. I am going to have to notch my pump a tad for the cable to clear.

Talked to Kevin at West Coast Porting, and he's going to shorten the nozzle for me.

the little ball has a nut on the backside..you dont need to tap it just drill through and then put the nut back on...on the stocker sense its plastic i drill one size smaller and thread it into the plastic but u dont need to...u might have to grind the steering arm a little where it meets the nozzel so the ball sits flat...u want it as close as it can go

 

[Matt_E]

ive seen it lol

wouldnt the adaptor need to be the exact same length as your nozzle is setback for it work properly??

You get some adjusting room because the cable's threaded end retreats into the sleeve only a small bit. So you got some wiggle room.

 

[wydopen]

Adding to the discussion, on the Thrust trim, I just installed on Rodney's jet, it came with an aftermarket metal nozzle. It didn't have any [Pro tec] markings and appeared to be cut down. i didn't measure it, but it is roughly 20mm longer than an OEM Raider plastic nozzle.

I rode his boat, but couldn't really tell much of a difference between a stock length nozzle. But, I'll need to ride it side by side with mine when I get it together.

I played around with the adjustable nozzle bottom out plate, which I have at the neutral position for where the steering nozzle returns.


The thing that we found curious, was not so much how differently the boat reacted in power 360's or bulldogs...but, that the lever that Thrust supplies with their kit does niot allow for full trim throw. The lever bottoms out against the handlebar and there appears to be about 4 - 5 degrees of throw that is "left on the table".

With the lever at full pull, and the trim lever bottomed against the bar, I can manually move the trim up another 4 -5 degrees.

looks like u need to move that steering cable over as well..

 

[wydopen]

You get some adjusting room because the cable's threaded end retreats into the sleeve only a small bit. So you got some wiggle room.

unless im mistaken the threaded part on a stocker goes into the sleeve most of the way..like i said mine hits the nut thats behind the clip that goes over the ball..i thread the clip on as little as possible so i can get maximum throw out of the cable

 

[Matt_E]

I'll check when I get home.

 

[NVJAY775]

Awesome discussions here along with a lot of useful info.

I just wanted to tap mine as well as keeping the backing nut. I'm only semi anal I guess. I drilled and tapped it, cut off the access and just have to clearance the cable to pump.

Aquaholic, that nozzle looks like a pro tec, but someone cut the logo off when it was shortened. Mine looks a lot like that one in your pics.

 

[djraider700]

Protec makes those nozzles in +20 and +50mm. I have the +20 one and i like it. Didn't notice much difference in steering compared to the stocker. Kept breaking the stock plastic ones somehow so went with a metal one. Drilled and tapped an extra hole closer to the nozzle for more throw.

I'd cut that +50 down some if it were my ski. Just looks like its ready to smack the bottom and really break something lol

 

[tightithrash]

Do you guys think that the nozzle lengths have the same reaction as extension boxes on high performance boats? basically giving them more leverage on the boat and making the water output farther back from the craft. i realize the boat has a prop as propulsion vs a jet pump but its still making the water ,"come out" if you will, farther back from the hull.






i looked up jet boats too and they basically do extensions on the exit nozzle and say its give more lift which makes sense. also noticed there steering nozzles are, for the most part, short. i would think the closer the water comes out to the end of the hull, the faster the boat will turn. with a longer exit point the ski "thinks" its longer in length.... so would turn wider.

just my thoughts.

 

[NVJAY775]

Do you guys think that the nozzle lengths have the same reaction as extension boxes on high performance boats? basically giving them more leverage on the boat and making the water output farther back from the craft. i realize the boat has a prop as propulsion vs a jet pump but its still making the water ,"come out" if you will, farther back from the hull.


View attachment 177104

View attachment 177105

i looked up jet boats too and they basically do extensions on the exit nozzle and say its give more lift which makes sense. also noticed there steering nozzles are, for the most part, short. i would think the closer the water comes out to the end of the hull, the faster the boat will turn. with a longer exit point the ski "thinks" its longer in length.... so would turn wider.

just my thoughts.

Dude.... Well said there. That made a lot of sense on nozzle length and hull length. Either way, mine looks like some kind of mutated male organ sticking out the back and needs shortening.

 

[OCD Solutions]

I would think that Sprint boats would be a fairer comparison to how we ride than the offshore racer.

 

[tightithrash]

Dude.... Well said there. That made a lot of sense on nozzle length and hull length. Either way, mine looks like some kind of mutated male organ sticking out the back and needs shortening.

Sweet so it made sense haha. Yeah you need to cut that thing way down for steering radius. I wonder though if shortening it would cause it to ride more nose high though.

Jet boats also have a "droop snoot" where the exit nozzle is shifted lower than the intake for even more leverage. looks like this


(^^^^^^^^^ that one kinda is a bad example because it's super long but you can see the height change^^^^^)

The Japanese have exit nozzles angled slightly up to help with flips but I'm getting on another subject here.

I would think that Sprint boats would be a fairer comparison to how we ride than the offshore racer.

Sure but the end result is the same.

 

[JetManiac]

Adding to the discussion, on the Thrust trim, I just installed on Rodney's jet, it came with an aftermarket metal nozzle. It didn't have any [Pro tec] markings and appeared to be cut down. i didn't measure it, but it is roughly 20mm longer than an OEM Raider plastic nozzle.

I rode his boat, but couldn't really tell much of a difference between a stock length nozzle. But, I'll need to ride it side by side with mine when I get it together.

I played around with the adjustable nozzle bottom out plate, which I have at the neutral position for where the steering nozzle returns.

The thing that we found curious, was not so much how differently the boat reacted in power 360's or bulldogs...but, that the lever that Thrust supplies with their kit does niot allow for full trim throw. The lever bottoms out against the handlebar and there appears to be about 4 - 5 degrees of that is "left on the table".

With the lever at full pull, and the trim lever bottomed against the bar, I can manually move the trim up another 4 -5 degrees.

You don't always want max trim angle. The more trim throw you have, the less lift you will get off the wave. You want to balance trim throw vs. power/lift. Less trim angle will often give you more height and better rotation.

 

[yamanube]

Do you guys think that the nozzle lengths have the same reaction as extension boxes on high performance boats? basically giving them more leverage on the boat and making the water output farther back from the craft. i realize the boat has a prop as propulsion vs a jet pump but its still making the water ,"come out" if you will, farther back from the hull.


.

The extension box makes a hull handle "longer" than it actually is, it gives more leverage on the bow of the boat to make it handle flatter, they are trying for the opposite effect than most of us are, if there nose is pointed up, they are losing power into the water. The same would go for turning, the boat would have a larger turning radius the further out the back the drive is. I would think (for a freestyle application) the closer to the center of the ski that you could put the pump/outlet (while still maintaining rideability) the more effective it would be. If that is right, it would seem you would want the trim nozzle as short as possible as long as at full lock none of the outlet diameter is inline with the reduction nozzle. Right? This is also a double edged sword because the further back the pump inlet is, the longer and better it stays hooked up.

Setback pumps and long nozzles come from race roots.