The Freakiest -7" Build You Ever Done Seen.

BrightE's

Paul
Location
Seattle, WA
And now for the first time I actually feel in over my head. I have no idea how to solve this. Can you guys help me out?

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Sanoman

AbouttoKrash
Location
NE Tenn
Have you taken a little off the top of the pump shoe? lf not,grind off a little bit of the shoe where it makes contact with the pump cavity,so it will come up just a bit.Make sense.....?
 
Is the shoe already sealed into the hull? It looks like the lip of the pump shoe is already sitting high inside the tunnel... I would machine down the pump shoe fins and raise the shoe slightly, IF where the pump shoe and intake tunnel meet doesn't already have a gap (which it looks like it does). Then shim up the pump.

Is the drawing an accurate representation of how the shaft is sitting in the bulk head? Not only the height/position inside the engine compartment but the angle of the shaft? I would say if the shaft is angled up (down in your pictures), then machining the tabs would be the answer. Or sanding down the hull if it is thick enough there. I would have to do the math to figure out the height difference and angle if you were to machine down 3/32", but if the current angle of the shaft in relation to the rest of the driveline is 0* I would imagine doing this could potentially throw off the midshaft alignment if the angle is too severe.


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Sanoman

AbouttoKrash
Location
NE Tenn
Is the shoe already sealed into the hull? It looks like the lip of the pump shoe is already sitting high inside the tunnel... I would machine down the pump shoe fins and raise the shoe slightly, IF where the pump shoe and intake tunnel meet doesn't already have a gap (which it looks like it does). Then shim up the pump.

Is the drawing an accurate representation of how the shaft is sitting in the bulk head? Not only the height/position inside the engine compartment but the angle of the shaft? I would say if the shaft is angled up (down in your pictures), then machining the tabs would be the answer. Or sanding down the hull if it is thick enough there. I would have to do the math to figure out the height difference and angle if you were to machine down 3/32", but if the current angle of the shaft in relation to the rest of the driveline is 0* I would imagine doing this could potentially throw off the midshaft alignment if the angle is too severe.


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Good info but most sf's you have to grind the top off the shoe.Maybe some other sf owners will chime in.
 
I agree with What sano said... Didn't see his post before I replied. It makes a lot more sense to solve this problem and avoids alignment issues. Looks like you will have to transition the lip on the pump shoe as well


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Good info but most sf's you have to grind the top off the shoe.Maybe some other sf owners will chime in.

I think I misunderstood your post...

By top you mean the top in relation to his pictures (upside down) or top as in where it meets the pump cavity? If you mean the latter, then it looks like grinding the top off the shoe would set the shoe into the pump tunnel flush, but wouldn't this worsen the alignment issues? I might be way off and interpreting his pictures all wrong...

This is what I would do, and take it with a grain of salt because I have never built an SF and don't know the ins and outs of that hull, but with that being said... Assuming your shoe isn't already glued in, I would grind down the top (where it meets the cavity) so that the shoe would fit flush like sano said. After it is test fitted and flush, I would remove the shoe and align and secure the shoe to the pump so it doesn't move. Then set the pump/shoe into the cavity together and shim the pump so it's center and aligned with the midshaft and bolt it down. This should put your pump shoe in alignment with the rest of the driveline. From there, assuming that the gaps aren't too severe, I would grind down the shoe to fit the hull correctly and transition any gaps by sanding/filling them. Of course if we end up with like a 1/2" off (which it shouldn't be), then this isn't going to work.

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TOBY

BNA
Location
NashVegas
Man I hate to burst your bubble but lining your pump shoe up using an intake grate is the LAST way to ever do this.
You need to drill your drive shaft hole (hoping Tim's guide hole is close) and assemble your pump. Bolt an intermediate housing without the shaft onto the fire wall. Slide the pump w/ shaft and pump seal in from rear through the intermediate housing.
This is how you line your pump shoe and pump up properly. Your shaft needs to be perfectly center of you intermediate hole inside the hull then mark and shim your pump shoe location and your pump holes PRECISELY! Remove the pump, drill and glue. Your intake grate will be the LAST of your worries as it can be modified to fit later.
If you want this thing to run with minimal vibration and wear to your intermediate shaft and drive shaft and everything else you need this step to be done PERFECTLY. That means the drive shaft and pump and pump shoe all need to line up perfectly with the hole in the intermediate housing.

This is your most critical step bro, I hope you take the time and get it right or you will be trashing parts for as long as you own this boat and or starting over once you ride it the first time. Get the pump shoe and pump correct before moving on and take no short cuts.

step 1
 

sjetrider

615 Freeriders are addicted to T1 madness.
all looks like standard SF build to me. They are custom, if you choose to build it / assemble everything you have to cut, grind, paste and patch as you go.
that said, it is hard to guide without seeing and adjusting in person but what was said already is true with the SFB, The top thin ledge of the pump shoe usually needs some removed. Also the pump shoe in most freaks do protrude from bottom of hull (I would have used a cast shoe and spent lots of time cutting and grinding).
Also, do not use the hole in the bulkhead to line up your pump, bolt an intermediate to the wall with no shaft in it and line up to that hole (I did not read entire thread, maybe you are doing this but drawing did not show it).
Good luck.
 

TOBY

BNA
Location
NashVegas
looks like the pump needs to be shimmed the drive shaft is high in the intermediate, if you shim the back down it should bring th front up.
 

BrightE's

Paul
Location
Seattle, WA
Have you taken a little off the top of the pump shoe? lf not,grind off a little bit of the shoe where it makes contact with the pump cavity,so it will come up just a bit.Make sense.....?

Hey Don, yeah man I took the tall lip off the pump shoe. I actually took too much off a few weeks ago, but patched it with epoxy. The shoe is sitting sound and tight against the tunnel lip.

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Is the shoe already sealed into the hull? It looks like the lip of the pump shoe is already sitting high inside the tunnel... I would machine down the pump shoe fins and raise the shoe slightly, IF where the pump shoe and intake tunnel meet doesn't already have a gap (which it looks like it does). Then shim up the pump.

Is the drawing an accurate representation of how the shaft is sitting in the bulk head? Not only the height/position inside the engine compartment but the angle of the shaft? I would say if the shaft is angled up (down in your pictures), then machining the tabs would be the answer. Or sanding down the hull if it is thick enough there. I would have to do the math to figure out the height difference and angle if you were to machine down 3/32", but if the current angle of the shaft in relation to the rest of the driveline is 0* I would imagine doing this could potentially throw off the midshaft alignment if the angle is too severe.

That was my second though. To fill the voids (core outs) in the pump shoe with JB Weld and then grind down the fins on the shoe so that the shoe essentially can be raised up to where the pump is sitting (this all under the premise that the ski is flipped upside down, meaning raising the shoe is actually moving it in the direction of the bottom deck).

I can't say what the angle of the shaft is, but the shaft is sitting very low in the firewall hole. I also thought about sanding down the hull too where the pump rests, the only problem being that if I do that, it will solve the misalignment of the pump to shoe, but it will actually make the shaft even lower in the firewall hole (ski upside down, again).

I think I misunderstood your post...

By top you mean the top in relation to his pictures (upside down) or top as in where it meets the pump cavity? If you mean the latter, then it looks like grinding the top off the shoe would set the shoe into the pump tunnel flush, but wouldn't this worsen the alignment issues? I might be way off and interpreting his pictures all wrong...

This is what I would do, and take it with a grain of salt because I have never built an SF and don't know the ins and outs of that hull, but with that being said... Assuming your shoe isn't already glued in, I would grind down the top (where it meets the cavity) so that the shoe would fit flush like sano said. After it is test fitted and flush, I would remove the shoe and align and secure the shoe to the pump so it doesn't move. Then set the pump/shoe into the cavity together and shim the pump so it's center and aligned with the midshaft and bolt it down. This should put your pump shoe in alignment with the rest of the driveline. From there, assuming that the gaps aren't too severe, I would grind down the shoe to fit the hull correctly and transition any gaps by sanding/filling them. Of course if we end up with like a 1/2" off (which it shouldn't be), then this isn't going to work.

Correct, shoe is not glued in yet. That's a good thought here, grind and fill in the difference from the shoe to the pump ring. I like this. I might do a combination of grinding the fins to allow the shoe to sit higher, and filling/grinding the abutment between the shoe and wear ring.

looks like the pump needs to be shimmed the drive shaft is high in the intermediate, if you shim the back down it should bring th front up.

Can't shim any lower, there are no shims. I can only go up, unless I grind.
 

BrightE's

Paul
Location
Seattle, WA
This is how far the wearring tabs need shimmed up to center the shaft in the firewall hole. Only problem is, this raises the wear ring up even further out of alignment with the pumpshoe that is already sitting high.

I think I am going to take from all of your guy's advise: Grind down the fins on the pump shoe so it can be raised a little, fill/grind any misalignment between wear ring and pump shoe, and shim if needed.
 

TOBY

BNA
Location
NashVegas
Can't shim any lower, there are no shims. I can only go up, unless I grind.


no you need to shim the back of the pump doing this will help the front of the pump and the shaft angle in the intermediate.

If you dont put the intermediate housing on the and git the shaft to fit it, you are wasting your time fitting the shoe.
THE BACK OF THE PUMP NEEDS SHIMS AND THAT WILL CHANGE THE ANGLE OF THE SHOE AND SEAL ANGLE...
 

TOBY

BNA
Location
NashVegas
This is how far the wearring tabs need shimmed up to center the shaft in the firewall hole. Only problem is, this raises the wear ring up even further out of alignment with the pumpshoe that is already sitting high.

I think I am going to take from all of your guy's advise: Grind down the fins on the pump shoe so it can be raised a little, fill/grind any misalignment between wear ring and pump shoe, and shim if needed.

You mat have to shim the shoe as well...
 
I would shim the pump first, then set the shoe/fill/grind while the pump is bolted in and shimmed correctly. If you shim after you might end up with more grinding. Basically my thought process is get the pump lined up to the midshaft housing first, and then do what you need to make the shoe fit the correctly lined up pump.


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BrightE's

Paul
Location
Seattle, WA
Can't shim any lower, there are no shims. I can only go up, unless I grind.


no you need to shim the back of the pump doing this will help the front of the pump and the shaft angle in the intermediate.

If you dont put the intermediate housing on the and git the shaft to fit it, you are wasting your time fitting the shoe.
THE BACK OF THE PUMP NEEDS SHIMS AND THAT WILL CHANGE THE ANGLE OF THE SHOE AND SEAL ANGLE...

Why all the yelling?? Indoor voices please. lol

If I shim the back of the pump, the shaft will go even further in the wrong direction.

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BrightE's

Paul
Location
Seattle, WA
I would shim the pump first, then set the shoe/fill/grind while the pump is bolted in and shimmed correctly. If you shim after you might end up with more grinding. Basically my thought process is get the pump lined up to the midshaft housing first, and then do what you need to make the shoe fit the correctly lined up pump.


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I think that's what I'm going to roll with. I'm going to shim the front of the pump as much as needed to get the shaft centered with the 3 bolt holes in the firewall. I'll mark it and lock it down there leaving enough room for the shoe and to compress the pump seal. Then I'll adjust the shoe, grind the fins as needed, and fill in or grind the shoe as needed to keep the transition smooth.
 
I think what Toby is saying is that you need to shim the front and the back in this situation so that the angle doesn't change, only the height of the pump/shaft. If you shim the front, it will create a slightly off angle driveline, but put the shaft center. Shim both to bring the shaft down (up in the pictures).

Lol the fact that we are looking at this upside down adds to the confusion with our front/back up/down descriptions


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BrightE's

Paul
Location
Seattle, WA
I honestly can't say how the angle of the shaft currently is right now. But if shimming is the method I used to raise the level of the shaft on both front and back, it would have to be like halve an inch, front and back, which just wouldn't work for aligning sake with the shoe, you know?

I think part of the problem is that the shaft is currently angled too far down, which is causing it to sit so low in the center between the three mid-shaft holes in the firewall.
 

Ducky

Back in the game!
Location
Charlotte, NC
Yea, everything being upside down is really messing with me.

I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but it is possible that the driveshaft is actually centered between the midshaft inserts and the driveshaft hole is drilled off center giving you that illusion. I have sent it before.
 
Correct. Shimming both is assuming your shaft is at 0* referenced the driveline, which you are probably correct that it is something greater than that. I guess my point was just to make sure the shaft is centered and at a ~0* to the driveline, not just in the center. Sounds like we're on the same page though


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