TNT pipes

[tntsuperjet]

I think Mat hit it on the head, that's what I'd like too, a chamber that could work from mid 800cc to 1000cc,no water in the exhauste port problem, maybe several slip in stinger sizes? That would be sweet.

Sorry but there just are not enough big motors to build a pipe for.
Unless people are willing to pay 1200-1500 a pipe.

 

[jetski9010]

Sorry but there just are not enough big motors to build a pipe for.
Unless people are willing to pay 1200-1500 a pipe.

Thats what people are paying for the power factor pipe. If you could get a pipe to squeeze in there and still keep the stock gas tank I bet you would have some buyers.

 

[Matt_E]

Thats what people are paying for the power factor pipe.

And just how many of those do you see being bought?

 

[tntsuperjet]

i have seen the rough estimate of how many baxter pipes been sold.
He should be getting 2,000 a pipe to make it worth his while to sell them.
the numbers just are not there.

 

[tntsuperjet]

Thats what people are paying for the power factor pipe. If you could get a pipe to squeeze in there and still keep the stock gas tank I bet you would have some buyers.

If i was to build a dry pipe for the big motors it would retail over 3500.00
WHy so much, because I dont believe I would sell more then 100 in the next two yrs and would have over 20k invested in tooling and research. add to that the cost of the stamps per pipe and assembly costs, hardware ETC, ETC
Give a small speach, If they retailed for 3500.00 the dealers make 30%, so you sell them 2,450.oo cost to build each is ballpark 400 in materials, labor is about 5hrs to weld up. at 85hr
sell price 2450
labor85x5=425.00
stampings=400.00
hardware= 100.00
shipping= 45.00
misc exp= 30.00
packaging- 25.00
_________________
-1025.00
total of 1,425.00

give away two pipes for sponsored riders to advertise.
4900.00
now your out 24900.00
So basically you have to sell 30 pipes to break even, if everything goes right and you never have a single pipe warrantied.

I dont see it profitable to build a big motor pipe even at a 3500.00 retail price.
now you see why no one wants to step up and build you guys a great pipe for your big motors.

 

[jetski9010]

And just how many of those do you see being bought?

I am just saying the guys who are running these 1000cc motors have a limited choice for pipes. Everyone I have seen has a power factor pipe which you have to have a 2 gal tank for. I would think if someone is going to put $10,000+ into there motor a pipe for $2000 would not be out of the question if that is the pipe they need for that setup. There are no pipes out there right now desinged for the big motors that you can keep the stock gas tank.

 

[tntsuperjet]

I am just saying the guys who are running these 1000cc motors have a limited choice for pipes. Everyone I have seen has a power factor pipe which you have to have a 2 gal tank for. I would think if someone is going to put $10,000+ into there motor a pipe for $2000 would not be out of the question if that is the pipe they need for that setup. There are no pipes out there right now desinged for the big motors that you can keep the stock gas tank.

what I am trying to say is even selling them at 3500.00 retail its prob a loosing money deal!
2,000.00 wouldnt pay for the tooling in the next 5yrs.

 

[kevbo]

You could use composites for evaluation and low production. Good materials are higher but the tooling is cheap.

 

[Berky]

I totally understand the numbers need to be there to make it work and even if you had a 100% of the big motor market it would be tight, But a "B" pipe will more than sorta work on a 1000cc (Stoyer info), is it possible with manifold spacers diff stingers or some other way to tweek it to make it work good ,smoother power band? If not, than the composite idea is great for low numbers even if it's not the optimal materials. If the R&D isn't to crazy for the big motors it might be worth it.

 

[MADMAT]

Well if B pipes will work up to 1000cc then skip it....were good to go. I thought 865 was kinda pushing it on a B though.

I guess I will find out! My plan is to get the 827 and eventually be up to 865. That could take years around here though as my motors tend to last 6 or more Summers! Maybe I will just go 865 then.

So it sounds like at the end of the day it will be the same as last time around. A few TNT chambers floating around at high prices except maybe this time with some real data shared.

 

[jetski9010]

what I am trying to say is even selling them at 3500.00 retail its prob a loosing money deal!
2,000.00 wouldnt pay for the tooling in the next 5yrs.

What if you could make them hand made just like your old pipes? Would that make them any cheaper for the lower numbers because you cutting out the stamping costs?

 

[MADMAT]

x2....

 

[ATS_Scott]

There are plenty of dry pipes out there that will clear pv's (with a little hammer work) and fit with the stock tank. The new XS pv set-ups seem like they might clear without any work, but that is just a guess from looking at pics. Based on some things Tim mentioned earlier, and the little bit of experience I have gained his year, I don't see why more big cc guys are NOT running dry pipes. I am certainly not the most skilled rider, in fact I'm probably below average, but the power delivery of an r&d dry pipe with h2o injection set-up right seems to have tons more mid and top than a bpipe. You really need to ride around with a good tach on your ski and I think you would be suprised at what rpm's your actually turning. Screwing around at the lake, on flat water, it's hard to maintain forward momentum under 3000 rpm.

 

[tntsuperjet]

What if you could make them hand made just like your old pipes? Would that make them any cheaper for the lower numbers because you cutting out the stamping costs?

It takes me 6-8hrs to build one cone pipe with everything setup.

My seadoo dry pipe took me 12-16hrs to make.

And to be honest, production is not my strong point, I will get two pipes done and won't be able to gather up the energy to build anymore for a month or so.
And after 6-7 pipes be F- that it's.

You guys prob think well why such a premodona.
Keep in mind I have welded for yrs and yrs, there is nothing left to weld that makes me feel like I'm not waisting my knowledge.
Or better feel like I am progressing in life.
I'm a Inovative mind, like challenge, building one pipe can be fun, because it's challenging to create power, replication is hard for me as my mind goes to sleep.
It's very dificult to justify 15hr work days when you might make enough money to put gas in your ski!

I don't mind loosing money or not making any money to build something way cool.
But to do production work and not male any money is a kids dream and I'm a grumpy old fart.

Stamping them is the only way to bring the pipe to market at a reasonable price.
If we sell 100 a yr or more the price will come down.

Another option is for someone to pay to develop the pipe and they can have the finished product and sell it?

 

[Berky]

I hear ya on the production, low paying production work sucks.
If I had deep pockets I'd hire you to develop a chamber that would have more bottom end than a Power factor, that could work in composite construction , for larger motors. God somebody buy my 60' catamaran!

 

[tntsuperjet]

I hear ya on the production, low paying production work sucks.
If I had deep pockets I'd hire you to develop a chamber that would have more bottom end than a Power factor, that could work in composite construction , for larger motors. God somebody buy my 60' catamaran!

I have done them in composite, to be honest its very dificult to make a carbon pipe run well. They do not have good thermodynamics.
all though our carbon waterjacket pipe was really tough and much lighter then any dry pipe we build, it still is long process to make.
I am not a composites expert. but the only way we came up with making the waterjacket was to use a molt wax, wrap the pipe with it 1/4 thick and then layup the carbon on top of the wax, use high temp resin and oven cure them and that would melt the wax out and you had your water gap.
But it was very time consuming, the concept was great, the finish product was sweet looking, just wasnt economically viable.

 

[MADMAT]

but the only way we came up with making the waterjacket was to use a molt wax, wrap the pipe with it 1/4 thick and then layup the carbon on top of the wax, use high temp resin and oven cure them and that would melt the wax out and you had your water gap.
But it was very time consuming, the concept was great, the finish product was sweet looking, just wasnt economically viable.

That sounds badazz!!

 

[masterblaster]

It takes me 6-8hrs to build one cone pipe with everything setup.


And to be honest, production is not my strong point, I will get two pipes done and won't be able to gather up the energy to build anymore for a month or so.
And after 6-7 pipes be F- that it's.

You guys prob think well why such a premodona.
Keep in mind I have welded for yrs and yrs, there is nothing left to weld that makes me feel like I'm not waisting my knowledge.
Or better feel like I am progressing in life.
I'm a Inovative mind, like challenge, building one pipe can be fun, because it's challenging to create power, replication is hard for me as my mind goes to sleep.
It's very dificult to justify 15hr work days when you might make enough money to put gas in your ski!

I don't mind loosing money or not making any money to build something way cool.
But to do production work and not male any money is a kids dream and I'm a grumpy old fart.

you could always try out my idea from the other thread,your current post pretty much begs for it. At the very least hire a cheaper welder to do the grunt work once your bored of making them.If you dont need a crap ton of them at once,find the right young guy that works for cheap,not hard in this econ... and you can pump them out faster than demand im sure

 

[tntsuperjet]

Masterblaster, you forget I been down that road,
if I could find a woman who welds I would do it.
Woman do repitition much better then men.
But I don't want to go down the hire employees any more.
I'm a one person band.
For past 15yrs everything with my name on it was built by me 100%
and when something goes wrong it's all me!
I wantto keep it that way, simple!

 

[Big Kahuna]

you could always try out my idea from the other thread,your current post pretty much begs for it. At the very least hire a cheaper welder to do the grunt work once your bored of making them.If you dont need a crap ton of them at once,find the right young guy that works for cheap,not hard in this econ... and you can pump them out faster than demand im sure

You still have not figured Tim out yet. He is not doing this as a job, to make money off of the chambers. He does not need the work. He likes the challenge. The only concern for money is just to cover his time, if he makes a few bucks great, he is happy, but his real payday is when he puts the finished product on a ski and it works better than anything out there available. Sending production to China is not what he is after. He could give a rats ass about it from that stand point.