D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
the vicosity is a factor with 2 stroke oils for sledheads for sure because of the cold temps that the oil needs to flow at in the injector system.
Super Jet break in oil type???
- Thread starter Patrick Star
- Start date
- Location
- Hokesbluff,al
im gonna have to say thAt you dont ride near as much as some of us. there is no way cleaning a power valve once a year would ever fly around here. run amsoil and you will never ever have to clean them.
- Location
- Texas
This thread is awesome, I always said I wanted to make a thread and get a ton of replies, hahaha. I'm breaking the engine in with a few tanks of Tec2000 and then switching to Klotz Benol, I found it for slightly more than what I was going to run, which was Penzoil full syn marine from Walmart and it would be like 30ish a gallon anyway.
Now the Pensoil XLF marine stuff is great in my book, ran it for a few years in my '87 jammer and '93 650SJ, but that was with stock engines, if that matters. Now I'm off to the world of B pipes, bumped compression and ported engines so I feel that the Benol will do good:woot:
Now the Pensoil XLF marine stuff is great in my book, ran it for a few years in my '87 jammer and '93 650SJ, but that was with stock engines, if that matters. Now I'm off to the world of B pipes, bumped compression and ported engines so I feel that the Benol will do good:woot:
chriselmore_1
high on resin
- Location
- san jose ca
that seizure sounds like bad tuning or something else other than oil. Norcal ex runs nothin but the cheapest 12$gallon walmart oil in his dasa 1000cc 10mill and when he broke it down last the crank looked new. He convinced me to use it. Before I used amsoil and noticed a HUGE differerance when I changed! That differance wal in my wallet! I think the only time it's worth it to use those expensive syn oils is in long term applications. Like differentials and transmissions.
The best argument for cheap oil for freeride standups is in the way they are operated. Most of our time is spent running at low power levels with very rich carb settings. We also tend to drown our engines occasionally and almost nobody does a lengthy blowing/drying out before heading home. Cheap TCW-3 is designed for these conditions. Any well designed/assembled/tuned engine will live on tcw-3 until the heat and loads are pushed too high for too long. If a specialized $$$$ oil is necessary find out exactly why, otherwise you are just compensating for fear and ignorance.
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It is unbelievable for me to see an expensive 10 mmm Dasa engine running on the cheapest oil someone can find. There is no way you can measure an oil's lubrication abilities bases on what a crank looks like after using it for some time. Is it that hard to assume that a higher grade oil is better and not just more expensive. I have yet to see a top closed course racer using the cheapest oil they can get their hands on. And don't say that they are sponsored or that they get it for free.
Yes freestyle engines are not operated at max rpms for long periods of time and you can't compare them to full on race engines. From what I have seen tearing down engines using the cheapest oil available is more wear. I am talking more bearing play and more cylinder wear just above the exhaust ports compared to engines that ran what is considered higher end oils. Maybe it takes lots of hours to see the difference.
You have to wonder if your car's engine would have more wear and power loss if it used Kragen brand oil compared to say Mobil 1 for 100,000 miles even if both were rated the same and carried the same specification.
Maybe oils and gasolines are very similar ? I don't know about you guys using name brand gasoline compared to quickie corner no name gasoline. They both say 87 octane on the labels but I know for sure in my truck I have to use the premium if its a no name or it will ping.
I also don't drink the cheapest beer and when I buy tequila it is most definitely not pancho villa in the plastic bottle. If I couldn't afford both then I would build a less expensive engine so I could afford to drink the better stuff.
Yes freestyle engines are not operated at max rpms for long periods of time and you can't compare them to full on race engines. From what I have seen tearing down engines using the cheapest oil available is more wear. I am talking more bearing play and more cylinder wear just above the exhaust ports compared to engines that ran what is considered higher end oils. Maybe it takes lots of hours to see the difference.
You have to wonder if your car's engine would have more wear and power loss if it used Kragen brand oil compared to say Mobil 1 for 100,000 miles even if both were rated the same and carried the same specification.
Maybe oils and gasolines are very similar ? I don't know about you guys using name brand gasoline compared to quickie corner no name gasoline. They both say 87 octane on the labels but I know for sure in my truck I have to use the premium if its a no name or it will ping.
I also don't drink the cheapest beer and when I buy tequila it is most definitely not pancho villa in the plastic bottle. If I couldn't afford both then I would build a less expensive engine so I could afford to drink the better stuff.
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
bad tuning by the engine builder? cheap oil? who knows, we never got an answer back from the builders, we did get a 900.00 bill + shipping and 1//2 season of no motor. you can run a motor on any oil and cheap oil is the minimum you need, if you want more protection and better performance out of your motor buy the best oil you can find locally. there are serveral brands with better characteristics than quicksilver. quicksilver is just the best of the crap. you get what you pay for or in my buddie's case you pay big and get 
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OCD Solutions
Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
- Location
- Rentz, GA
You probably only buy the best liquid halogen for your headlights too. Guess what? I get that from Walmart too. :biggrin:
Unicorns aren't real, Santa is your parents and all oil and gas comes from one of 3 sources with a few minor changes made along the way to affect color and odour. It comes from the same factory and is simply branded with a different label and sold at a different price to make you the consumer feel all warm and fuzzy about your purchase.
Batteries are another good example of this. Deka and Magna power are the same battery made in the same factory but are sold under different labels at different prices. I watched a guy pull into a local store in a porsche and demand a deka battery for his car. I was just shaking my head.
Truth is, there is so much technology in all our products today that even the cheapest stuff is more than adequate for standard use.
Unicorns aren't real, Santa is your parents and all oil and gas comes from one of 3 sources with a few minor changes made along the way to affect color and odour. It comes from the same factory and is simply branded with a different label and sold at a different price to make you the consumer feel all warm and fuzzy about your purchase.
Batteries are another good example of this. Deka and Magna power are the same battery made in the same factory but are sold under different labels at different prices. I watched a guy pull into a local store in a porsche and demand a deka battery for his car. I was just shaking my head.
Truth is, there is so much technology in all our products today that even the cheapest stuff is more than adequate for standard use.
steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
chriselmore_1
high on resin
- Location
- san jose ca
boyer you copmletely nailed what I was about to post! Most people just don't realize or want to accept it! Don't take my word for it... Call xscream and ask them what oil you should use...
steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
ratio is normally 32:1 on ss motors
- Location
- Stevensville, MD
Not all of us have Xscream engines though. As I said before I use the oil my builder recommends. If you do a search you will see that several other engine builders on the site recommend castor, r-50, benol, etc... In the end it all comes down to what you want and how you ride. I chase boats all day so my engine lives at a higher RPM than someone who rides flat water or surf all day. In my opinion better oil is cheap insurance.
The oil I run is probably considered to be one of the more expensive oils ($35). But at 50:1, it's cheaper than the $25 Quicksilver oil 32:1. So it's really not a price argument.
Run whatever your motor builder recommends and/or what makes you feel good. Just don't think you'll convince anyone on the Internet to run a different oil than what they are currently using.
Arguing about it is pointless.
Run whatever your motor builder recommends and/or what makes you feel good. Just don't think you'll convince anyone on the Internet to run a different oil than what they are currently using.
Arguing about it is pointless.
chriselmore_1
high on resin
- Location
- san jose ca
I don't have an xscream motor either. I'm kinda partial to jetworks and dasa myself. Mainly because thry are on my coast, but several people I know have em. Quicksilver is about 20$ a gallon. Wallyworld also carrys some 12$ gallon too. Their mix ratio depende on the particular setup
p.s. In my truck I rum amsoil in my front and rear diff, and transmission
p.s. In my truck I rum amsoil in my front and rear diff, and transmission
Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
I blew more engines when I was running Amsoil. Klotz is what I run now, if I still had a hookup, I would be running Motul. That was some clean running oil.
Dustin Mustangs
uʍop ǝpıs dn
- Location
- Holland, MI
A TC-W3 oil is made up of three main parts; base oil, solvents and additives. It is safe to say that the base oil can only come from a few different sources and that its performance from one to the next will not vary much if at all. The difference in performance (and price) comes from the solvents and additives. Each TC-W3 certified formula has a registration number printed on the container such as "R-12345". If this number is different from one brand to the next it is 100% no doubt a different formula with a different level of performance. Getting this certification costs hundreds of thousands of dollars so there is little doubt that a unique reg number is a unique blend.
So no, they are not all the same.
So no, they are not all the same.
You can have an inexpensive oil that is marketed well and is sold at walmart and just the fact that it is sold in walmart means there will be many users who use it. Walmart is known to dictate the price of the goods they will purchase and having that account means max sales for any oil company and if you don't then that means you competing against it in the market. This does not mean that is a very good oil but it could mean that it is a decent oil. If I had to drop the price of my oil in order to get it sold at walmart I would do it even if it meant using less of or the use of less quality additives. As long as it passes the specs is all that walmart cares about.
Claiming that this cheaper oil is a top oil based on the fact that walmart sells it for less and it should go for a lot more in my opinion is not correct. Using a cheap oil at 32 to one versus using a better oil at say 50 or 60 to one is like putting on more and more hand lotion on and expecting it to work better.
Is the reason for using it at 32 to one due to lower confidence in it's quality ? Do you trust it enough to to go leaner ? I have had to use both maxima 927 and amsoil 100 to 1 oil at 80 to one a few times due to not having enough for the trip. I would have just rode a lot less if I was using a cheaper oil that I did not trust.
Claiming that this cheaper oil is a top oil based on the fact that walmart sells it for less and it should go for a lot more in my opinion is not correct. Using a cheap oil at 32 to one versus using a better oil at say 50 or 60 to one is like putting on more and more hand lotion on and expecting it to work better.
Is the reason for using it at 32 to one due to lower confidence in it's quality ? Do you trust it enough to to go leaner ? I have had to use both maxima 927 and amsoil 100 to 1 oil at 80 to one a few times due to not having enough for the trip. I would have just rode a lot less if I was using a cheaper oil that I did not trust.
D-Roc
I forgot!
- Location
- Dirty River Rider
for an engine builder to build motors for pro's and people that know very little and need to be told, what oil will he recommend? how about an oil that is decent, well priced and available in every city of each state and even here in canada. i run 50:1, my buddy ran 32:1. My stihl weedeater came with an extended warranty if i purchased a 6 pack of stihl oil along with it. so not all oils are the same.
OCD Solutions
Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
- Location
- Rentz, GA
The oddest thing about this conversation is that at times we are all making each others point. It really boils down to what engine you have and with what mods, how well you maintain said engine and at what intervals, next is how you ride it and yet another is where you ride it. These are all factors that will untimately determine what oil works best for you. IMO, Engine expense is not near as important a determining factor as how the engine is going to be run.
Bottom line, if your current oil is working for you then why would you change? If you suffer a failure, (that better oil could have prevented), then by all means look for something better. All the engines I have lost were due to poor tuning and maintenance as I was learning the sport and about 2 stroke engines.
I'm still trying to figure out how Walmart plays into all this? Go back in this thread and replace "Walmart" with "Quicksilver" so we can have an actual oil versus oil comparison. I still cannot fathom how a distributor plays a role in an oils effectiveness. By that thinking, anything found on Walmarts shelves is sub par chit including every name brand item they sell.
Bottom line, if your current oil is working for you then why would you change? If you suffer a failure, (that better oil could have prevented), then by all means look for something better. All the engines I have lost were due to poor tuning and maintenance as I was learning the sport and about 2 stroke engines.
I'm still trying to figure out how Walmart plays into all this? Go back in this thread and replace "Walmart" with "Quicksilver" so we can have an actual oil versus oil comparison. I still cannot fathom how a distributor plays a role in an oils effectiveness. By that thinking, anything found on Walmarts shelves is sub par chit including every name brand item they sell.