C.A.T.S. - Cheap Arse Trim System - post yours!

[demolition_x]

well a bigger lever would give you better leverage.


i would try to do something like the wammer setup. im sure it can be done

 

[wildman326]

I tried several differnt levers. I also made a special piece that hooked up to a Protec lever to give it a ton more pull. However, I found that levers with more throw made it very awkward to pull. You had to reach so far to get the lever that it was a real pain. Ultimately I moved the connection points on the actual trim down so less pull on the handle would give more pull on the trim. Technically it's harder to pull, but more convenient and comfortable.

I must admit I really like the idea of the pully, but am skeptical as to how much pull you will lose in the process. Guess I just gotta mock one up.

 

[2lick]

I went to the Riva site and found the stock trim ring for a 94 Raider. I took that part number to my local dealer and they said it updated. Just got the part in my hand and it will work perfectly. Nice aluminum ring that bolts right up to my steering nozzle. If anyone wants, I'll dig up that part number.

Now for the question:

Will one of the many aftermarket finger throttles work for the trim lever? Just wondering if you'd be able to pull that little lever under power.

I wouldnt mind you posting the part number:Banane01: :Banane01:

 

[Cannibal]

I wouldnt mind you posting the part number:Banane01: :Banane01:

62T-51190-01-94

cost $36.54 @ my dealer.

 

[romack991]

I believe geek used these.

48 RING, TRIM 1 $33.99
41 NOZZLE, DEFLECTOR 1 $29.66
From RIVA.

Which when I look up the 95 raider, that correlates to these numbers
62T-51190-00-5B RING,TRIM $33.99
62T-51313-00-00 NOZZLE DEFLECTOR $29.66

 

[Speedfreak]

I must admit I really like the idea of the pully, but am skeptical as to how much pull you will lose in the process. Guess I just gotta mock one up.

If you loose the throw with a pulley you can move the pulley closer to the pivot point but that would make it harder to pull. I would guess that you would have the same force to get the same angle of pull. If the same lever is used.

Either way I am building a pulley into my protec system so that it looks just like the almost $1000 dollar system but at a fraction the cost just a million man hours on my part... which is free as long as it is done at work... LOL

 

[Cannibal]

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another.

Now this law of conservation of energy is refering to the 'magical' creation of energy and the conversion from kinetic to heat for example, but it still applies to this pulley system.

Adding a pulley will reduce the effort and the travel by half, but to get the same trim actuation, you'd need to increase the cable travel by 2. Since you can only pull so far, you'd need to decrease the lever ratio by half, which will increase the effort needed by 2, canceling out the pulley completely. Taking in concideration the added drag of moving twice the amount of cable, you'd be better off with a direct pull trim system.

Steve

 

[RideItLikeYouStoleIt]

Question?? I may just be a noob but I was under the impression that.... If i buy teh trim ring from a raider and the steering nozzle I could finagle it to work on my sj reduction nozzle to get some trim. Neglecting the needing to run the cable and such that set up can work right?? Seems to me it could but I thought i heard people talking about needing the reduction nozzle off a raider as well. Just making sure thats the case because i can get the ring and nozzle for 49 bux brand new from Yami dealer. I dont want to have to buy the reduction nozzle as well. I thought the reduction nozzle had a top and bottom mount on it not side mounts so the 2 were the same.

 

[Cannibal]

Question?? I may just be a noob but I was under the impression that.... If i buy teh trim ring from a raider and the steering nozzle I could finagle it to work on my sj reduction nozzle to get some trim. Neglecting the needing to run the cable and such that set up can work right?? Seems to me it could but I thought i heard people talking about needing the reduction nozzle off a raider as well. Just making sure thats the case because i can get the ring and nozzle for 49 bux brand new from Yami dealer. I dont want to have to buy the reduction nozzle as well. I thought the reduction nozzle had a top and bottom mount on it not side mounts so the 2 were the same.

Ya, either you need the reduction nozzle from a raider or, have some material welded onto the side of yours, then drill and tap that. You current nozzle has bolts at 12 and 6 o'clock. The trim ring mounts at 3 and 9 o'clock.

 

[parrdaddy]

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another.

Now this law of conservation of energy is refering to the 'magical' creation of energy and the conversion from kinetic to heat for example, but it still applies to this pulley system.

Adding a pulley will reduce the effort and the travel by half, but to get the same trim actuation, you'd need to increase the cable travel by 2. Since you can only pull so far, you'd need to decrease the lever ratio by half, which will increase the effort needed by 2, canceling out the pulley completely. Taking in concideration the added drag of moving twice the amount of cable, you'd be better off with a direct pull trim system.

Steve

I agree 100%! The pulley is a gimmick that makes people say "wow, I gotta have that!" I don't think there is a way to make a trim easy to pull under power without adding something to create more force mechanically. :sneaky:

 

[kx454]

i have a quick adjust MX clutch perch that i use for my trim lever.

 

[SuperJETT]

hydraulic trims are just a few months away.

Baker used to make them. I always heard they were nice and rode a race s-d with one, it was smooth, but water intrusion was always an issue.

Cable systems can give you 30+ degrees of throw, why complicate things?

 

[norcal ex]

for some reason my trim is not hard to pull at all... maybe its the lever that i am using? ill try to get pictures later...

 

[SuperJETT]

Hydraulic is just a way to get you there, you'll either have longer throw or more lever force to get the throw. The hydraulics is just how you transfer the force. There is no magic here, hydraulics are nice and smooth, but they don't magically increase your throw or make it easier to pull.

 

[SuperJETT]

really? isnt that the point of most hydraulic systems? to multiply your force, as you put it, magically?

hydraulic clutches on motorcycles are much easier to pull than mechanical.

In high force applications, you have a lot of friction from the cable rubbing inside the sheath plus the sheath itself will compress as you pull. Hydraulics minimizes those losses, but complicates things. It doesn't give you more leverage unless you decrease the throw.

 

[WaveDemon]

really? isnt that the point of most hydraulic systems? to multiply your force, as you put it, magically?

hydraulic clutches on motorcycles are much easier to pull than mechanical.

they are as long as the master cylinder is bigger than the slave cylinder.

 

[2lick]

pascals principle is the fluids in a closed enviorment with two diffrent sized pistons..... yeah so your right...

 

[SuperJETT]

i dont think this is much of a high force application.

how does hydraulics complicate things?

wouldn't it give you MUCH more leverage if it were a dual piston system?

other than rebuilding the pistons at given intervals, what problems are you referring to? hydraulic systems are watertight by their nature. otherwise theyd be leaking fluid all over the place, wouldnt they?

Dual pistons doesn't reduce the force you have to apply.

Here ya go.

Let's say it takes 100 lbs of force to pull the nozzle up. Somehow, someway, you have to apply 100 lbs of force up at the lever.

Say you have a 1" diameter cylinder down there, that's 0.785398175 square inches (less if you're on the shaft side) so you'll have to generate 127.3239 psi to move it.

Ok, up at the lever end you have to make that pressure.

If you have a 1" diameter cylinder, you'll have to apply 100 lbs of force.

If you change that to two .75" diameter cylinders, that is 0.8835729 square inches of piston surface, so you'll have to apply 112.5 lbs of force to the lever to move the cylinder. That is a harder lever pull.

However, change those cylinders to .5" and your force drops to 50 lbs. The problem with that is, you're displacing less fluid as you move it, so you you'll have to have a longer lever throw to get the same throw at the nozzle end.

 

[parrdaddy]

:haha:

either there's too much magic involved, there's too much friction in the cable, theres not enough leverage, or theres no reduction in force. got it.

Why is it funny what SuperJett said? A hydraulic system...without any pumps, is nothing more than a fancy lever, no matter is you have 1 piston or 1000. Is that funny too?

 

[SuperJETT]

i'm sorry, its not funny. you guys are both right. blaise pascal is the one who's wrong.

Ok, how am I wrong?

I'm open to being shown if I'm doing something wrong.