waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
Bringing it in sooner would be better for you flippy guys as well as you pull off idle all the time.
DIY Total loss or MSD TL upgrade box 270USD?
- Thread starter Christian_83
- Start date
Jcary85
Site Supporter
- Location
- Glenmoore pa
well that picture is not my MSD curve, just what they have in the instructions - Art at ET was pretty clear that he wanted very little timing up top (and I have no doubt he's dialed in the pressure waves/etc since he dynos the heck out of these things). I'll try whatever - send a curve over and i'll give it a go. Rev limit is also Art's suggestion.
The MSD settings I rand were 32 static, max timing set to max (so 32 max), start retard at 6k and make sure I have 21 degrees of retard at 7k (I forget the dip switch settings to get there, but I can post if someone wants it).
The MSD settings I rand were 32 static, max timing set to max (so 32 max), start retard at 6k and make sure I have 21 degrees of retard at 7k (I forget the dip switch settings to get there, but I can post if someone wants it).
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
This was getting to much to keep writing small posts back and forth so I reached and spoke to Jordan on the phone. ( Top Bloke with great knowledge). we discussed curves and he is going to try some things with the curve. The Conversation also made me think about a ski I am tuning as the guy tends to ride it like a freestyle ski when he is in the surf. I am an ex wannabe racer and so i am flat out every where so i dont need the timing off idle. If you are an idle then suddenly 65 feet in the air doing all sorts of yoga moves on your ski then you should be using more timing in the curve. I actual;y softened the curve in the fx1 as the 122 did not like the hit. If you pull timing out then you are likely to go rich and if you put timing in then you will find they tend to go lean
Jcary85
Site Supporter
- Location
- Glenmoore pa
Ya I’m excited to try the suggestions but weather is not cooperating. By the way, checked with a light and total timing is spot on.
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
As the engine and pipe come into sync then the dynamic compression goes way up. You dont want to much timing in there right about then. You can look at a graph and get a rough idea where it is on your engine with your pipe and your porting, but most people dont do that. I remember having it at 5000 on a limited ski with w type 9 and it would loosen spark plugs, So i eased it back to 4500 and it was fine. Bear in mind this was a stock 61x cylinder. You can put in more down low, when i wrote the curve for the zeeltronic I had to make sure it was ok for everyone to use and not cause an issue
- Location
- Detroit metro
Not to interrupt, but I have two 760 stators and covers for sale that are perfect for a Zeel setup. I welded in the oiler and grease spots for a nice smooth look! Check out my post in the parts for sale section.
Jcary85
Site Supporter
- Location
- Glenmoore pa
Update:
TL;DR; I was wrong - the Zeel performs just as well or better then the MSD and I’m VERY happy about that!
Details:
I went out last night with a new curve with a bit more total timing (34) and less retard At high RPMs (21 total at 7k). Most importantly, I had total timing come in at 1500 RPM instead of 3000. The ski rips and no more loading up down low. I did have to play with fueling a bit and ended up at 145/110 reverse jetted where previously the MSD setup liked 145/115 (when it was colder) or 135/125 when it got warmer. I think the fueling difference comes from a bit more total timing (why it wants more down low). Now, I don’t understand why it wanted less up top - perhaps because I’m running a bit more timing it’s running more efficiently and needs less fuel? Can’t really figure that one out.
Unfortunately this wasn’t an exact apples to apples test since I’m now running a slightly different curve than I did on MSD, but it tells me I can get the same (actually better) performance with the zeel so I am thrilled. No more magnets flying out, coils breaking, pickups failing, brains dying, etc.
One little side note - I was able to turn my stinger FCV way in because my water box was not getting as hot. I suspect this is because of 10 degrees more timing up top keeping the exhaust cooler. This is great news since the motor really hits hard down low with the stinger dried out a lot. I’ll keep messing with this.
BTW - it was 64 and cloudy with 25mph winds last night, so not ideal conditions but I just had to have an answer to this conundrum. I’m glad I went out!
TL;DR; I was wrong - the Zeel performs just as well or better then the MSD and I’m VERY happy about that!
Details:
I went out last night with a new curve with a bit more total timing (34) and less retard At high RPMs (21 total at 7k). Most importantly, I had total timing come in at 1500 RPM instead of 3000. The ski rips and no more loading up down low. I did have to play with fueling a bit and ended up at 145/110 reverse jetted where previously the MSD setup liked 145/115 (when it was colder) or 135/125 when it got warmer. I think the fueling difference comes from a bit more total timing (why it wants more down low). Now, I don’t understand why it wanted less up top - perhaps because I’m running a bit more timing it’s running more efficiently and needs less fuel? Can’t really figure that one out.
Unfortunately this wasn’t an exact apples to apples test since I’m now running a slightly different curve than I did on MSD, but it tells me I can get the same (actually better) performance with the zeel so I am thrilled. No more magnets flying out, coils breaking, pickups failing, brains dying, etc.
One little side note - I was able to turn my stinger FCV way in because my water box was not getting as hot. I suspect this is because of 10 degrees more timing up top keeping the exhaust cooler. This is great news since the motor really hits hard down low with the stinger dried out a lot. I’ll keep messing with this.
BTW - it was 64 and cloudy with 25mph winds last night, so not ideal conditions but I just had to have an answer to this conundrum. I’m glad I went out!
- Location
- Winter Park
Good stuff- thanks for the follow up!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jcary85
Site Supporter
- Location
- Glenmoore pa
Sure!
so, here's the basic curve (I plan to try variations on this FYI)
18 until 1400
34 from 1400-6000
21 at 7000
15 at 8700
keep in mind, this is a somewhat aggressive curve and works well for my setup but might not on others. be careful!
Jcary85
Site Supporter
- Location
- Glenmoore pa
PS - I'm very interested to try setting max at 1000 RPMs. Think it might give just a tad more bottom end punch? maybe not, who knows. I'm also curious to try an identical curve to what I had with the MSD and see how it compares.
Quinc
Buy a Superjet
- Location
- California
Max at 1000 might make for a rough idle. But try it and let us know. 
Jcary85
Site Supporter
- Location
- Glenmoore pa
Ya good call. I bet my idle is over 1k anyway. MSD curve was 32 at 1500 until 6000 then 11 at 7000
Jcary85
Site Supporter
- Location
- Glenmoore pa
The MSD? I don't think you can change it. Take a look at the chart i posted in post 960. I really don't fully understand but i believe that chart is illustrating a setup with a static advance of 30 degrees. So, I THINK with my static 32 degrees it would have been 12 degrees below 1500.
Quinc
Buy a Superjet
- Location
- California
Has anyone played with different curves for a water injected pipe vs dry pipe? Like tnt/rrp/pfp wet Vs pfp dry?
Wets
1500-1800 turned on
wets should be turned off in the 5000’s
drys should be turned off in the 6000’s
first depends what rpm your boat likes to turn. My experience is racing with peak rpm important
1500-1800 turned on
wets should be turned off in the 5000’s
drys should be turned off in the 6000’s