Freestyle Feedback on Mag impellers in OEM pumps

[GIL]

what 148 did he have, did he use the stock reduction nozzle? I cannot see how a 148 is to big for a 865 when the 144 was built for a 650.

Art wants everyone to run a 140 MAG. (even up to a ADA 951). Different strokes for different folks. I personaly think these monster pumps are getting played out fairly quickly.

 

[squash]

what 148 did he have, did he use the stock reduction nozzle? I cannot see how a 148 is to big for a 865 when the 144 was built for a 650.

i think it was a 12 vein mag. probably not required until you go over 1000cc. it's the blade design etc that makes the difference.

 

[D-Roc]

not required but i would think that it could be made to work. Steveuk had a big pump in his waterdawg hull and i thought it worked great but he didn't like it. I like big. so on the 148, does it have the same size housing that all the 144 stuff bolts up? anyone know this?

 

[motoman96]

Read on skats site, it will breakdown the sizes of pump an cc capabilitys. I just bought a 140 12 vein for a 809 Jetworks motor that's going into a 68lb hull. Bigger pumps mean more load on the motor, your trying to push that much more water. Throw in a steep pitch prop, an that's even that much more load on the motor. So if you have a 148 mag, but can't push it, WTF good is it?

 

[D-Roc]

it wouldn't be much good at all but why would you throw in a steep prop if you can't push it. to me, if i got the 148 i know that it would be bigger than what i need and won't have to upgrade. maybe a steeper prop pitch down the road after a bigger motor. If the prop i did order was not bang on i would be able to try one shorter tail cone or one longer tail cone. if that still didn't make a benifit, change out the exit nozzle ring and try again. According to the skat site the reduction nozzle they design is part of the key to the mag pump. if you just slap on a 12 vane section with all the oem stuff it may not be a great pump setup. yes \ no ?

 

[Jr Freestyle]

I ran a skat 12 vein set back 148 mag , with the thrust trim And their reduction nozzle on my ss 846, and I had no bottom end but It would take off like a frieght trane from mid to high.I talked to x scream and they told me my pump was to large that was the problem, so I bit the bullet and switched to the 144mm skat 12 vein setback works 100 times better

 

[motoman96]

I ran a skat 12 vein set back 148 mag , with the thrust trim And their reduction nozzle on my ss 846, and I had no bottom end but It would take off like a frieght trane from mid to high.I talked to x scream and they told me my pump was to large that was the problem, so I bit the bullet and switched to the 144mm skat 12 vein setback works 100 times better

That's what I'm saying! Everyone thinks bigger is better an are dead wrong. You need the power to push a bigger pump, regardless of pitch, your still trying to push more water.

 

[D-Roc]

jd, did you try different props and tail cones and reduction nozzle sizes?

 

[Jr Freestyle]

X scream said even with the smallest prop I could buy for the pump that it just wouldn't perform properly for the size of my motor, they said that I will have to go with a smaller mag. Of course the 148 will work, but if your wanting bottom end you need the smaller pump

 

[D-Roc]

so you didn't try any different props, different tail cones or reduction nozzle diameters. of course they said to buy a combo they know works compared to something in a ski with there motor that they can't ride. and it is been a good move to get it but if you didn't dial in the pump then you can't really say it was too big. how much bottom end do you need? to me if your pulling a 14/19 in a 144 and not loading the motor too much then why can't a 9/15 in a 148 work with the proper tuning of cones and exit nozzle?

 

[Jr Freestyle]

I don't know what to tell ya, you can doubt the advice of x scream but they have many comp skis and they are in the business of freestyle. There comp boat in amature last year, was a bob ss865 and it had a 144 mag and it was doing back flips, I'm sure if a 148mm performed better it would be in there.

 

[D-Roc]

easy, i am not doubting that they know or don't know what works good. but they can't dial your pump in for you. they can recommend another part that they know will work but if you want what you had to work, you would have to do that yourself. It kinda sucks that you always need one more part to make their setup work. chances are you could have made you 148 pump work. pump sizes should have some overlap and the full packaged mag pumps do because of their adjustability. 140 can power a 70hp-140hp, 144 can power 85hp-150hp 148 90hp-160hp. yes?/no? does anyone tune their skis or just listen to someone miles away?

 

[D-Roc]

Also steveuk's mag in his WD hull was the 148 and he had a somewhat weak 701 powering it. The ski had gobs of bottom end grab that blew me away. it grabs so much water and popped the ski up and out of corners and tip overs. it was the hull it was in that was my problem.

 

[OCD Solutions]

I don't think there is any problem with their advice...only people who cannot/do not follow it to a "T".
I did everything I was told to to match all my components to my SS865 and I have no complaints, nor does anyone else that has ridden it. The same goes for all the other X-Scream boats I have ridden...cept for Scott's, he insisted on building his own and it's taken him months of messing around to finally get his to where ours were out of the box.

IMO, if you trust a builder, you will do everything that they recommend right down to the last bolt and you will get everything you wanted. If you have doubts then you will second guess them and their recommendations and your project will reflect it. The guys on here that have the best packages or the hottest skis, all believe in their builder and follow every detail and suggestion. The guys on here pissing and moaning about this and that all seem to be full of doubt and are spending way too much time second guessing everything and still coming up short.

Pick a builder, be very clear about your expectations and then do everything they recommend because it has been said over and over again and is just as true today as ever...A ski is the sum of all it's parts.

 

[D-Roc]

yes the builder has the knowledge of what works. but that engine builder can not dial in 100 different skis. the only way they can get great results is to recommend something that they know should work. now if chuck lived next door to Jr and worked on his ski, do you not think he could make that 148 frickin rip? yes he could but he isn't there to make the calls so he has to recommend something.
"hey its the canadian again, he says his ski has no bottom end"
"No bottom end? WTH? he probably put that motor in a heavy ass superjet, what pump is he running?"
"148"
"ah frig, they canadians have too much brain freeze to figure out a 148"
"well what do i tell him?"
"try the tbm or the 144 mag, they are pretty good overall."
The builders do have great advice in buying what parts but it is always another part. Behind every great rider is a guy, you know that guy, he is the guy that made that ski, that just won the championship, run the way it does. even if it is a TS, DASA, EME.

 

[Billybo455]

people run the Jetmaniac 144 because it's a great, cheap way to get in a mag. i've got a 2" set back billet 148. the difference between the two is about 1200 bucks. so why would you pay the extra money for 4mm? the guy who's motors has won the last 9 of 10 years at world finals told he runs 145 pumps as his choice. personally i think you can get a 144-148 mag, set it up for your motor/ski combo and it'll work fine for 90% of the people out there. someone on here is about to get a 150mm mag. i'm curious on how that's going to work.

a stock pump has the same adjust ability as a mag. you can get the same pump cones and nozzles for a stock pump. it just doesn't work near as well as a mag. the tbm is a bandaid. when you're trying to get the most flow out of something you don't want restriction. has anyone looked at the tbm in a pump. the ridges and blunt edges where the water passes over in the stator? if you get a billet skat mag they are all machined in one piece so the flow is completely smooth with no obstructions.

 

[D-Roc]

the mag also can divide the work up over the 12 vanes and thus becomes more effiecent. it is not about the volume of flow on a 144 as so much as its ability to do it very very well and to prime very very well. 144 is 144 no matter how much pressure. if you want more volume you need bigger pump. maybe the big pumps are only good for topspeed but i think holeshot is also pretty important in racing and that is what these pumps are intended to do, flow faster and prime quicker.

a stock pump can be adjusted by tail cone and prop, and one chance at a bored reduction nozzle which is pretty common and safe to do and the results have been pretty much approved by the internet. add a tbm and now you have a bigger hub and three different cones to try but still the one bore of the nozzle. the mag has prop pitch, bigger hub, setback option, more vanes options, better reduction nozzle design, adjustable ring sizes, and three different cone options, so yeah the same as a stock pump. j/k.

 

[Billybo455]

skat states, " [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Although our Set-Back Pumps and their Standard cousins are equal on acceleration, hook-up, and mid-range speed, testing has shown that our Set-Back models have an added advantage in top-end speed." if a reduction nozzle/steering nozzle setup bolts up to a mag. it will bolt up to a stock pump. so yes, the same parts can be used. you can't adjust vane numbers or hub sizes after you buy it.... my octane has a 140 pump in it. the boat has a little bottom, but it's a rocket up top. 61 mph on limited setup. pump setup is a little more complex then people give it credit for.

you can ask people on motors and they will give you the "this is what works for what you want." ask about pump, prop and they'll go i think or this is what people have fun.
[/FONT]

 

[D-Roc]

so the 140 makes higher go fast pressure and no bottom end on a limited 777 and steveuk's 148 in a limited 701 grabbed lots of water but didn't rev it very hard. i would much rather have the 701 148 combo. one big thing i noticed when i switched from kawi to yamaha is when you land on the kawi 140 pump, the ski always sunk the tail in deep and took forever to grab water, then bob up and fall over. the superjet pump 144 primes and you can stomp your landings. part of why i switch was the pump .(and weight) i had a strong 750 motor that ran good. I agree pump combos are very tricky. how can anyone tell anyone else what to run.

 

[motoman96]

It all comes down to what works with your setup, I personally am going with what my builder says. He's been doing this for 20 plus years, I will take his word.