Hand guns

Matt_E

steals hub caps from cars
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at peace
I am in NO way trying to be a smart azz, do you not think all this guns and ammo BS will blow over about as fast as it blew up?


No, I don't. I saw it happen in late 2008 and most of 2009. While the reasons for the buying craze back then were idiotic considering how Obama's first four years turned out, it was was real nonetheless.
It was impossible to find the following:
380 ammo
Any kind of common caliber bullets
Powder
Primers (big one)
223 and 308 ammo
Reloading tools (shell plates were a big one)

A pack of 1000 primers used to sell for $20. Overnight it went to being impossible to find. Retards at gunshows tried to sell them for $80-$100 per 1000.

And this went on for almost a year.

And THIS time around, the buyers actually have something to worry about. Last time, all Obama did was expand gun rights.
 

OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
What does the Ruger 1911 go for in your neck of the woods? 700.00 seems to be the magic number here WHEN you can find one.

$700 would get it done. Retail is $799 and they typically sell for 15% under that so that puts it at $698 plus taxes.
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/models.html

The buying craze did eventually die down though didn't it. It will this time too...eventually. I agree with Gil on this one, it will have an effect, but only on firearms that have no business in the average man's hands anyways.

The prices I posted up on reloading were base pricing for calculations only. I should have mentioned that they were sold out of all reloading supplies as well so maybe that's not even a viable option at this point either.

Makes the .22cal stuff look that much more appealing but even that is hard to find right now.
 
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Matt_E

steals hub caps from cars
Site Supporter
Location
at peace
Right now is a HORRIBLE time to get started reloading. You will be paying exorbitant prices for everything.
 

OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
Right now is a HORRIBLE time to get started reloading. You will be paying exorbitant prices for everything.

Which do you attribute that to Matt? Christmas gifting, indoor winter hobbiests or the election? I just tuned back into firearms after a 20 year hiatus so I am not familiar with what is political and what is just seasonal market fluctuation.
 

OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
NRA: Why are gun sales booming...by Frank Miniter
(Don't miss the credit the NRA gives itself in this article, written by...well themeselves, lol.)

When news broke that gun sales are booming in a mostly down economy, many national media outlets quickly concluded—as ABC put it—some fear “a second Obama administration might restrict gun ownership.”

No kidding. When the Supreme Court twice comes within one vote of ruling that the Second Amendment of the U.S. Bill of Rights doesn’t protect an individual right, Americans have a right to be concerned. When an incumbent president seeking a second term has already appointed two people on the nine-member Supreme Court who would likely vote away this basic human freedom, citizens have the right to be doubly concerned. And when you realize that, if re-elected, the incumbent president would have a good chance of getting a few more Supreme Court picks—and so could reshape the high court into an anti-gun last word for decades—people are going to be motivated to buy firearms right now.

However, while all that is true, there is a deeper truth the media is missing—or maybe avoiding.

Although the Obama factor has contributed to the recent spike in the sales of some types of firearms, this simplistic answer ignores the fact that gun sales have basically been increasing for decades. Also, saying the increase in gun sales is only about President Barack Obama allows some in the mainstream media to imply this trend is being driven solely by people they characterize as government-loathing, “red state” rednecks. This way they can write off the whole thing as a simpleminded fear held by those who, as Obama himself once put it, “cling to guns and religion.”

The truth is there are many factors driving the sales figures, and sales are up everywhere, even in “blue states.” The top reason hasn’t been President Obama, but rather the movement for freedom spearheaded by the National Rifle Association and its robust membership.

To make this clear, let’s go through the statistics and details to see the big picture the media would rather not address.

Understanding NICS Background Check Trends
Since it became operational in November 1998, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) has conducted more than 150 million checks, over 70 percent of them for firearm transfers by federal firearms licensees other than pawn shops and 24 percent of them for firearm permits.

NICS checks are not a perfect barometer of gun sales, of course. Some of these checks are for more than one firearm and in other cases individuals who pass the check decide not to buy a firearm. Some involve a buyer trading in one gun toward the purchase of another. In many Right-to-Carry states, permit holders don’t have to go through separate NICS checks. And a small percentage of NICS checks result in denials.

Nevertheless, the numbers of firearm transfer-related checks provide some insight into year-to-year and month-to-month trends in firearm sales. And because the FBI releases updated figures on NICS checks every month, NICS is where the media look when trying to draw their own conclusions on the subject.

In January, newspapers and TV news shows were abuzz with stories about how the number of NICS checks was 14 percent higher in 2011 than in 2010, including a 22 percent higher figure in December 2011 than in the same month in 2010.
The December 2011 tally was an all-time monthly high for NICS checks, and because polls were showing potential Republican challengers not faring well against President Barack Obama in hypothetical “match-ups,” some in the media concluded that the increase in NICS checks was largely due to fears of what Obama might do on gun control if re-elected.

The spike in NICS checks in December 2011 may have been largely driven by this “Obama factor.” The same thing happened in November 2008, when Obama was elected; NICS checks rose 29 percent compared to the previous month, and were 42 percent higher than in November 2007.

The effect was so profound that during the 2009 Shooting, Hunting, Outdoor Trade (SHOT) Show a few months later, the going gag was that President Obama was the “greatest gun salesman of all time.”

However, the surge in firearm transfer-related NICS checks didn’t begin in 2008. While check numbers have fluctuated from year to year, the average annual number for the last five years, 2007-2011, is 25 percent higher than for NICS’ first five complete years, 1999-2003—a trend that far exceeds the rate of the U.S. population growth.

Measuring Gun Sales
A better insight into gun sale trends is provided by hard data showing how many firearms U.S. manufacturers produce and don’t export, and how many foreign-made firearms are imported.

At the SHOT Show last January, Steve Sanetti, president of the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), said, “The $4.1 billion shooting industry has been growing in an otherwise anemic economy. We’re grateful and proud that our industry has helped maintain jobs from the manufacturer through retail levels during these difficult economic times.”

He has reason to be pleased. In general, firearm manufacturers have been beating the downturn. In one example, last March Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc. (which trades on the New York Stock Exchange as “RGR”) completed the fourth and final quarter of its “1.2 Million Gun Challenge to Benefit the NRA.” During this year-long challenge, Ruger donated a total of $1,254,000 to the NRA as it built and shipped more than one million firearms. Ruger’s CEO, Mike Fifer, said, “We achieved this milestone because of the strong support of our loyal consumers.”

Ruger’s employees have certainly been busy. According to Ruger, the company received so much interest in its firearms it “had to stop taking orders.” A notice on the company’s website stated, “Despite the company’s continuing successful efforts to increase production rates, the incoming order rate exceeds our capacity to rapidly fulfill these orders. Consequently, the company has temporarily suspended the acceptance of new orders.” (At press time, Ruger expected to resume accepting orders at the end of May.)

Not all guns, however, have been selling.

Scott Grange, Browning’s director of public relations, says, “I’ve spent 30-plus years watching sales cycles in the firearm industry. This particular one has seen a fast rise in the sales of handguns and black guns, but for the last two to three years, traditional long-gun sales have been slow. We’ve been back-ordered on our .22-caliber 1911 pistol for some time, but sales of bolt-action rifles and hunting shotguns haven’t been as brisk; however, we’re now seeing a turnaround. We just had a good fourth quarter—partly due to some of our new gun introductions that are really exciting dealers.”

Overall sales figures from the NSSF certainly show that handguns and “black guns” (AR-style semi-automatic rifles) have been driving the numbers over the past few years. The number of U.S. semi-automatic pistols produced (imported and exported) was in the 900,000 range from 1998 to 2000, but then fell to a low of 626,836 in 2001. Since then, this category has risen nearly every year. In 2009, some 1,868,268 pistols were imported or exported by U.S. manufacturers, according to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) data. Revolver sales show a similar rise over the same period.

The BATFE data doesn’t separate “black guns” from other rifle styles, but anyone who has tried to purchase an AR-style rifle in recent years probably had to get in line. Many of these rifles have been back-ordered for months, if not for more than a year.

Other numbers also show the trend. For example, the number of muzzleloaders imported into the U.S. fell 20.8 percent between 2009 and 2010; meanwhile, the number of muzzleloaders exported fell by 17.4 percent. The imported-rifle category plummeted 37.5 percent between 2009 and 2010, though the overall 10-year trend for rifles sales (again including all rifle types) has been up.

Also, the number of imported shotguns and combination guns was 163,663 in 1998. This number rose each year until peaking in 2007 when 725,752 were imported, according to the BATFE. Comparatively, the number then fell by almost 200,000 in 2008 and 2009. These are the numbers Grange was referring to, as Browning predominantly sells traditional long guns.

Though some categories have been softer than others, the firearm industry is healthier than most American manufacturing sectors. For example, before the 2012 shot Show, the NSSF actually had to ask exhibitors to voluntarily reduce their booth space so smaller companies could get in to the sold-out show. The NSSF represents about 7,000 firearm manufacturers and related companies and attracted approximately 60,000 people to the trade show last winter. Overall, the feeling in the firearm industry has been cautiously optimistic—that’s a big difference from most manufacturing sectors at the moment.
 

OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
Page 2 of the article

Laying the Groundwork
President Obama, of course, hasn’t yet praised this upbeat sector of the economy—we haven’t seen him in Remington’s plant in Ilion, N.Y., donning a hard hat and congratulating machinists. No, President Obama would rather firearm manufacturers retool and begin making solar panels and windmill turbines.

So let’s step away from the sales charts and figures and take a look at the demographics that frighten President Obama and other anti-gun politicians and activists. There is, after all, a good bit of hope and change taking place—though not the kind President Obama likes. For example, Sanetti pointed out that in 1959 some 70 percent of the American public favored handgun bans, whereas today that number has flipped. He said, “We’ve been able to conclusively prove scientifically that, as John Lott wrote, more guns do equal less crime.”

In his 1998 book, More Guns, Less Crime, Lott analyzed FBI crime statistics from 1977 to 1993 and found that concealed carry laws resulted in a murder rate reduction of 8.5 percent, a rape reduction of 5 percent and an aggravated-assault reduction of 7 percent. This and research from historians and others began to factually turn the argument against the anti-gun crowd.

Meanwhile, the NRA also made it clear this is a freedom issue. This argument resonated even with people who don’t own firearms. Of course, the NRA has also been busy fighting for our Second Amendment rights, advocating for participation in the shooting sports, instructing people how to shoot and store firearms safely, working with police officers and the military, and doing myriad other things to benefit all Americans.

What isn’t often acknowledged is that all of this became the foundation for attracting more Americans to the shooting sports and to buying firearms for self-defense.

Growth in Right-to-Carry Opportunities
To see the effects of legislation and court decisions, consider the rise in the number of Right-to-Carry permits across America.

From the mid-1980s to today, America has become a mostly “shall-issue” nation with regard to Right-to-Carry permits. A “shall-issue” law requires that a concealed firearm permit be issued to any applicant who meets uniform, statewide standards adopted by the state’s legislature, rather than allowing issuing authorities to arbitrarily reject a qualified individual’s application. Shall-issue laws prevent local governments from arbitrarily refusing to issue permits.

The NRA has worked across the country to make this happen and continues today to fight in courtrooms, state legislatures and in Washington, D.C., for the right to keep and bear arms. Given how much progress we’ve seen, it’s easy to forget what a big factor this has been to increasing gun ownership and sales.

Just consider that, as this was being written, 41 states had Right-to-Carry laws. Thirty-eight of them had “shall-issue” laws. Also, a total of 49 states had laws that allow at least some people to carry certain concealed firearms in public, either without a permit or after obtaining a permit. At press time, Illinois was the only state without such a provision.

To see what a big change this is, log on to Wikipedia.com. Wikipedia can’t always be trusted as a fact-based resource, but the flashing map on Wikipedia.com’s entry on “concealed carry in the u.s.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States) shows a color-coded map of the U.S. changing year-by-year from 1986 to today. Over those years the color changes show the spread of shall-issue laws.

It’s hard to overstate how important this has been to increasing gun ownership and reducing crime rates in America. For example, Florida has issued more than 2 million Right-to-Carry permits since adopting its law in 1987 and had 919,831 licensed permit holders as of March 2012. Nationally, the NSSF estimates there are 6.8 million Right-to-Carry permit holders today. This is up from about a million in the mid-1980s.

Since 1991, when violent crime peaked in the U.S., about half the states have adopted “shall-issue” laws; meanwhile, many other federal, state and local gun control laws have been eliminated or made less restrictive. Also, according to BATFE data, the number of privately owned guns has risen by about 100 million during this same time period. As all that happened, as of 2010, the nation’s murder rate had fallen 52 percent to a 47-year low, according to FBI statistics (www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats). And it fell sharply again in 2011.

To continue this positive trend, last March U.S. Sen. John Thune, R-S.D., introduced S. 2213, the “Respecting States’ Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act.” Under this self-defense bill, an individual who has met the requirements for a carry permit, or who is otherwise allowed by state law to carry a handgun, would be authorized to carry a handgun in any other state that issues such permits or does not prohibit Right-to-Carry. Each person would still be subject to the laws of each state. A similar bill (s. 2188) was introduced by Sens. Mark Begich, D-Alaska, and Joe Manchin III, D-W.Va. This bill is the companion legislation to H.R. 822, which passed the U.S. House of Representatives last November by a bipartisan vote of 272-154. (The NRA supports all of these bills.)

All of this pro-gun legislation has not only added to freedom, personal protection and a great deal of fun at ranges across America, but it has also, quite likely, helped increase the number of gun owners and, hence, firearm sales.

Shooting Sports Popularity
Another factor related to the aforementioned legislative and judicial victories has been the impact of popular television shows. Shows such as the History Channel’s Top Shots and Discovery Channel’s Sons of Guns have helped to showcase to a more mainstream audience that the shooting sports are fun.

Though it’s hard to measure the effect of such programs, there are numbers we can look to for answers. For example, the Boy Scouts of America reported that the number of “shotgun shooting” merit badges increased 27.8 percent from 1999 to 2010. Archery and rifle badges also increased. Further, NSSF statistics on female participation in the shooting sports show that from 2002 to 2010 the number of women shooting shotguns rose an estimated 30.2 percent, while the number of women participating in bow hunting increased 108.3 percent. Meanwhile, the number of hunters actually increased in many states during this economic downturn, and active-shooting sports, such as 3-Gun and sporting clays, have been growing nationally.

Another factor is an increase in gun collecting; in fact, here is one statistic that would boggle President Obama’s worldview: In 1975, the NSSF reports (using records from the BATFE) that 5,211 people had “Collector Type 3” federal firearms licenses, whereas in 2011, that number had skyrocketed to 60,063 people.

There are many other categories and statistics showing the tidal shift in gun ownership beneath this current wave of sales, all of which are related to legislative successes that have freed up our Second Amendment rights, as well as judicial victories and other successes.

However, all of that has been ignored or misunderstood by a mainstream media who would like to explain the whole thing as nothing more than fear mongering from gun nuts in fly-over country.
 

OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
This article says it's a standard growth with no dramatic spikes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-horwitz/the-truth-about-gun-sales_b_1193498.html

When you screen out certain categories of NICS data that clearly do not represent gun sales (pawn transactions, concealed handgun permit checks, administrative oversight), you come up with a very different set of numbers than what is being reported in the national media. The following is a computation of FBI reporting of background checks representing "Handgun Sales," "Long Gun Sales," "Multiple Sales," and "Other Sales" (which the FBI defines as "frames, receivers and other firearms that are not either handguns or long guns...such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act firearms"). Note the figures in parentheses on the right. These are rates of (potential) gun sales per capita utilizing annual U.S. population data:

2011: 10,037,110 (3,217 per 100,000)
2010: 8,753,555 (2,835 per 100,000)
2009: 8,927,138 (2,907 per 100,000)
2008: 8,426,245 (2,771 per 100,000)
2007: 7,530,727 (2,499 per 100,000)
2006: 7,361,033 (2,467 per 100,000)
2005: 6,935,952 (2,346 per 100,000)
2004: 6,599,292 (2,253 per 100,000)
2003: 6,333,371 (2,182 per 100,000)
2002: 6,347,492 (2,206 per 100,000)
2001: 7,207,720 (2,528 per 100,000)
2000: 7,067,634 (2,504 per 100,000)
1999: 7,857,932 (2,816 per 100,000)

As you can see, over the past 13 years, the per capita "sales" figure has fluctuated between a high of 3,217 per 100,000 in 2011 and a low of 2,182 per 100,000 in 2003. But there have been no "dramatic" spikes in either direction dating back to the final two years of the Clinton administration.
 

GIL

Power In The Hands Of Few
Location
Cullman AL
$700 would get it done. Retail is $799 and they typically sell for 15% under that so that puts it at $698 plus taxes.
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/models.html

The buying craze did eventually die down though didn't it. It will this time too...eventually. I agree with Gil on this one, it will have an effect, but only on firearms that have no business in the average man's hands anyways.

The prices I posted up on reloading were base pricing for calculations only. I should have mentioned that they were sold out of all reloading supplies as well so maybe that's not even a viable option at this point either.

Makes the .22cal stuff look that much more appealing but even that is hard to find right now.

Last Saturday I went to a very large gun shop 4 miles from my house looking for run of the mill 240g JHP 44mag ammo by the 50ct-NO GO, went to Wal Mart, they had 5 boxes of ammo in the entire store!!! Yes-ALL CALIBERS-total of 5 boxes!!! The Cullman AL WalMart IS the redneck capital of the world!!! It really put things into perspective for me that everyone is buying guns and ammo right now!

Good news is-2 of the 5 boxes they had left was Winchester 240g JSP, 50ct ammo for 39.00 per box. LOL (great for getting my new Burris dialed in since thats close to my hunting loads).
 
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Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
my favorite so far

13594_10151307140193486_227685741_n.jpg
 

sxi steve

Life's short, have fun.
Location
Clinton Twp, MI
It's gonna be my part time job to defend my Constitution rights. I hope you all are on board and passing the word.

"Death by 1000 paper cuts"

[video=youtube;EXrAt7-ij2k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EXrAt7-ij2k[/video]
 

OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
Spent quite a bit of time tracking down some extra 17 round mags this weekend. Everybody is sold out so it comes down to who will backorder and who will honor sales in time to beat the ban.

What is it that makes us all panic and convince ourselves that we need things like this anyways? I can't imagine a scenario that would ever require me to have 95 rounds loaded and ready but dammit I am going to have it.
 
Location
Iowa
+1 high cap mags are hot right now ammo is getting scarce also i hope all this blows over soon so people and prices come back to reality
 

sxi steve

Life's short, have fun.
Location
Clinton Twp, MI
Spent quite a bit of time tracking down some extra 17 round mags this weekend. Everybody is sold out so it comes down to who will backorder and who will honor sales in time to beat the ban.

What is it that makes us all panic and convince ourselves that we need things like this anyways? I can't imagine a scenario that would ever require me to have 95 rounds loaded and ready but dammit I am going to have it.

I think you basically answered your own question. In general, government intrusuon and dictation on the rights and freedom of the good and law abiding man and woman. I don't trust this government AT ALL. They are painting You and Me as criminals, to be restricted and managed the way they see fit. And yet they abibed and live under their own set of rules. They are up to know good and they/we know it. That's why we are all stocking up! Government threatens and this is what happens. I have heard NOTHING about many any other solution to the mass shooting issue which sparked this whole gun and magazine ban. Nothing, just ban, ban, ban. Sickening! And even more sickening, I have heard the word "confiscation" by some. Take action.

Call and write your legistation throughout this entire month, as I am.
 
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OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
I did quite a bit of reading this past weekend and came across many instances where these types of bans were proposed in the past and systematically shot down. One article listed all the names in congress that helped to shoot down such proposals and where they are today, or rather, where they aren't. Unfortunately it looks like the deck is currently stacked against us.
 
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