Liter motor dreaming...

[Foximus]

My gas tank is in my backpack. I run fuel line down the pole.

 

[wsuwrhr]

My gas tank is in my backpack. I run fuel line down the pole.

Well alrighty then.

 

[Foximus]

I joke...


But back on topic.


Mat, it sounds like your wanting big performance without any repercussions of maintenance. Most of the things these guys are saying like replacing your crank seals are not mandatory repairs, but really if your investing up to 8k in a motor, doing little things like $20 seals once a year to make sure your motor doesnt suddenly air leak and burn up lean... its well worth it.

I honestly think you should consider going with a stroker motor over a stock stroke big bore if you want great performance for your dollar. I think more than anything you should read up on some 2 stroke tuning and tech manuals to help you make an informed decision.


BTW, did we meet at razzles? You had the cast on? I dont remember all that much...

 

[MADMAT]

No cast thankfully....just a CVS metal brace and a crutch...and I just stayed by the bar/dance floor so I could drink and watch hot girls dance!

Daytona was soooo big this year I felt like it was hard to see old friends again and hard to meet new pepes too.


Next year I am staying a couple days longer maybe!

I have ridden a few strokers and was not very impressed. But every Yamaha 701 I have ever ridden impresses me....so in my mind a 701 on roids (a TS stock stroke 865) has to be the chit! Had I not hyper extended my chit (I hope thats all it is) in Daytona I would have ridden one and probably bought one before leaving. But now I have all this time to research.

I look forward to hearing more about epoxy holding up but because no one really has enough hours on epoxied motors to really really know I will probably just eat my fear of it and go with the TS kit.

 

[MADMAT]

I haven't directly asked my builder about it (Art @ Jetworks), but he hasn't told me anything about it NOT lasting long, either.
I'll ask him next time I talk to him.

Thanks Matt....he has been around a looong time and it would be encouraging to hear him say it is life long stuff......but can that be??

 

[OCD Solutions]

The epoxy that TS uses in a Devcon mix I believe. It looks and feels more like a ceramic of some kind than a plastic. Someone posted more details of the concoction; I wish I could find it.

I worked in a mine for 5 yrs and we used a large range of Devcon products for hard surfacing components and that stuff was bulletproof when applied correctly. I used one of their products on an axle shaft that was worn down by the seals. Prep, apply, cure and then machine to spec in a lathe. It was still going strong 40K miles later.

 

[JetManiac]

So no stock stroke TS motors use non epoxied cases?

I hate hate hate epoxy in a motor. I will question until the day I die no matter who the builder.

i think your getting hung up on an epoxy issue

did expoy do something to you at some point? did it touch you...... in an in appropriate place....

its ok mat... open up.. you can talk to us... let it out

I have seen it deteriorate in motors. It is not permanent. It will eventually need taken out and redone. I hate it.

As far as I know TS has not had an epoxy related failure, epoxying cases is not a new thing. All/most builders who are building big strokers and big bore setups have been epoxying cases for many years. Proper prep and bonding are important. Sh@tty workmanship produces sh@tty results.

You can't build a big bore motor without epoxy (or the aforementioned billet cases) so get over it.

SS765 is big power and a great all around surf or flatwater motor.

The XS1000 is crazy power for top riders, but might just be the thing for dropping in on a 30-40foot wave....just kidding.

 

[MADMAT]

I am already at 713 so I would want at least 865.

I know epoxy has been around a long time.....but I want to know if it needs redone in 5 years.

Have you seen it fail? I have.....twice.

Not fun picking/grinding/drilling it out and the doing it again knowing that it won't last. OEM cases are forever.

I will get over it if I have no choice.

 

[AtomicPunk]

Have you seen it fail? I have.....twice.

who did that work?
And to what degree did it fail?

 

[WaveDemon]

I have never seen or heard of Pat screwing a customer. I doubt he would approve of an epoxy in one of his motors that fails. Call and ask if replacing epoxy is a maintenance item. They will tell you what is up.

 

[MADMAT]

I don't know who did the cases I had. It failed behind the flywheel and crapped up my electrical.

And I have no doubts that these builders would not screw someone...I just want to know if epoxy in cases can be life long.

 

[Big Kahuna]

I am already at 713 so I would want at least 865.

I know epoxy has been around a long time.....but I want to know if it needs redone in 5 years.

Have you seen it fail? I have.....twice.

Not fun picking/grinding/drilling it out and the doing it again knowing that it won't last. OEM cases are forever.

I will get over it if I have no choice.

Matt, there is a pretty significant difference from 713 to 800cc. Dont think that 87cc is a small number. On my previous TLR cylinder, when I hit 83mm, that motor really came alive much more so than when it was at 82mm.

 

[MADMAT]

Matt, there is a pretty significant difference from 713 to 800cc. Dont think that 87cc is a small number. On my previous TLR cylinder, when I hit 83mm, that motor really came alive much more so than when it was at 82mm.

I don't doubt that but I want a at least 865.

 

[Idok]

you should put new crank seals on your ski every year. why the hell are you so worried about the epoxy that your just going to have to reapply? pony up and by that sweet lil screamer

what!?!?!? that is insane............. who told you that???

I am already at 713 so I would want at least 865.

I know epoxy has been around a long time.....but I want to know if it needs redone in 5 years.

Have you seen it fail? I have.....twice.

Not fun picking/grinding/drilling it out and the doing it again knowing that it won't last. OEM cases are forever.

I will get over it if I have no choice.

get over the epoxy....if it had been done by someone reputable and failed you might have an argument, then you'd have to reverse engineer to see why failed...

materials or prep..

I'd bet on prep 99% of the time...


ss 865 kit..start at the 2nd bore will get you either 847 or 849 with 1 bore left.....in your ENVY hull it woudl be absolutly nutz, boat wake backies woudl not be a problem

I belive I read that TS will also be offereing half-sizes in the near future as well.....more bores!!!

 

[Idok]

Matt, there is a pretty significant difference from 713 to 800cc. Dont think that 87cc is a small number. On my previous TLR cylinder, when I hit 83mm, that motor really came alive much more so than when it was at 82mm.

when you go to 83mm that is where the compression ratio changes....this gives the bigbore feel without actually going all the way out to 84

 

[OCD Solutions]

Jetmaniac misposted 765 instead of 865...so most of the last posts about displacement are in reaction to a typo, just thought it worth mentioning...

 

[Big Kahuna]

I don't doubt that but I want a at least 865.

Dont focus on engine size. Focus on the package. There is a guy from Florida that I have been competing with and racing against for 10 years. He use to run one of Malones old Wammer ski's. He bought a used OEM SJ preped by Wamiltons back in 2007. I rode this ski at a race. This thing made power like you would not believe. The throttle response was instantanious. It had explosive power. Made my setup wimper.

I was running an 84MM big bore. Jeff's motor is around 82mm (713cc or so) and is running OEM 38's. His prop was setup to match the power.

Dont focus on the hype of a big motor.

 

[steve-uk]

Dont focus on engine size. Focus on the package. There is a guy from Florida that I have been competing with and racing against for 10 years. He use to run one of Malones old Wammer ski's. He bought a used OEM SJ preped by Wamiltons back in 2007. I rode this ski at a race. This thing made power like you would not believe. The throttle response was instantanious. It had explosive power. Made my setup wimper.

I was running an 84MM big bore. Jeff's motor is around 82mm (713cc or so) and is running OEM 38's. His prop was setup to match the power.

Dont focus on the hype of a big motor.

for sure you need the package otherwise the power has no where to go!

even down to the set up, carbs/jetting, pipe, pump, prop etc

 

[steve-uk]

great thread by the way

 

[steve-uk]

I belive I read that TS will also be offereing half-sizes in the near future as well.....more bores!!!

when i bought my 865 pat mentioned exactly this, that they are working on it