Freestyle Nozzle length and why?

[aquamaniac]

Good thread

 

[tightithrash]

The extension box makes a hull handle "longer" than it actually is, it gives more leverage on the bow of the boat to make it handle flatter, they are trying for the opposite effect than most of us are, if there nose is pointed up, they are losing power into the water. The same would go for turning, the boat would have a larger turning radius the further out the back the drive is. I would think (for a freestyle application) the closer to the center of the ski that you could put the pump/outlet (while still maintaining rideability) the more effective it would be. If that is right, it would seem you would want the trim nozzle as short as possible as long as at full lock none of the outlet diameter is inline with the reduction nozzle. Right? This is also a double edged sword because the further back the pump inlet is, the longer and better it stays hooked up.

Setback pumps and long nozzles come from race roots.

that precisely what i was saying.

 

[tshank123]

Strange. Read through this thread and I'm wondering why everyone is saying shorter nozzle = tighter turning. On my blaster, it turns super hard with my OP extended nozzle compared to stock. Is there something different about a standup vs a blaster or am I somehow thinking about this wrong?

 

[yamanube]

that precisely what i was saying.

Well then, I agree, we just needed more words

Precisely:439:

 

[jetpilot36]

this is a great thread.after reading,i modified my steering nozzle(62t) and adjusted my cable.now i have ALOT more throw out of the nozzle.and im thinking the 62t nozzle is a short one which will result in tighter turns(better for rolls).but im curious...i read the whole ATP nozzle thread and im wondering what makes it so special? length? placement of the steering cable ball joint?

 

[Tmart]

this is a great thread.after reading,i modified my steering nozzle(62t) and adjusted my cable.now i have ALOT more throw out of the nozzle.and im thinking the 62t nozzle is a short one which will result in tighter turns(better for rolls).but im curious...i read the whole ATP nozzle thread and im wondering what makes it so special? length? placement of the steering cable ball joint?

Haha exact same question I have. I've been eyeing the ATP nozzle forever now but waiting for somebody to give direct feedback on flatwater to make the purchase

 

[D-Roc]

I had an ATP nozzle at it gives good throw for quick steering. I had a modded oem turn nozzle for years and the ATP is more aggressive. It may have to do with the divider vane in the middle that give more leverage in the full lock position. Best none trim nozzle I have used. It was just installed on a stock 650 and the new owner of it loves the way his ski turns now.

 

[OCD Solutions]

I was pretty excited to see where this thread was going since I have been chasing the difference between my ski and ScottS's for months now. He runs an oem nozzle with X-Scream trim setup and I run a Sato Engineering reduction nozzle, trim ring and steering nozzle. We have swapped out enough pumps and impellers to now realize that the effect remained regardless of the combo and so it had to be in the reduction and steering portions.

The SE setup appears to be longer overall so after reading thru this entire thread, I planned to bite the bullet this weekend and cut down my steering nozzle. Before I pulled it apart, I took a couple measurements and found that it was only 10mm longer.

I find it hard to believe that 10mm would have such a profound effect so I didn't make the cut. All the pivot points appear to be in the same places as oem so I guess I am back to square one.

I am still thinking that trim angle has far more influence on turning than the length of the nozzle itself. If there is any uptrim at all, it plants the back of the ski and reduces the ability to turn or slide. I have now set my trim angle to zero to match an oem setup and will try that next. I usually ran around 5-7degs but have had it as high as 11deg up from zero.

For those of you that run trim systems and have chimed in on this thread, how close of attention do you pay to trim angle?

 

[D-Roc]

I have been thinking about trim angle a lot. And from what I can tell I am running maybe 2 degrees down. I may change it a bit to see if I can make my ski turn a bit better. I am going to set it for 0 next. My ski is riding a bit more nose high with my sponsons and I want it to handle a bit more like last season.

 

[NVJAY775]

Funny you guys mention trim angle. I didn't check mine before my first ride on the new hull, but when I took my nozzle off, I noticed the xmetal trim stop button, had worn a nice pit into my red nozzle and my nozzle was past flat. Meaning it actually had a bit of noticeable down angle. I didn't measure the trim angle because it pissed me off seeing the hole in my red nozzle.

I epoxied a couple stainless washers over the button (to spread the pressure and hopefully not wear a bigger hole in my red nozzle), so once I get my nozzle cut down, I'll set it up at zero and see how it does.

Do you guys use the cable length to adjust the static nozzle angle? Or some kind of adjustable stop, to keep poressure off the cable when the trim is static, or down? An adjustable stop to keep the pressure off the cable would be badass.

 

[OCD Solutions]

My Sato nozzle has an adjustable backstop built right into it.

When I first setup my ski, i was told that 7deg of uptrim was ideal so that is where I started. I went up as high as 11deg and have been taking it back out a little bit each ride. I was probably at 3-4deg for my last ride.

 

[sicksxr07]

My skat trim has a adjustable stop on it too . When I first took my q8 out I had it about 10deg static . sucked and could barley ride it was so nose high. I have it around 2 now. Seems good

 

[NVJAY775]

You guys wouldn't by chance have any pics, or link to pics of the adjustments would you? Interested how it works. I've been looking for some pics, but haven't come up with anything that actually shows how the SE or Skat works.

Thanks
Jay

 

[OCD Solutions]

Here you go. it takes a 10mm metric bolt

 

[NVJAY775]

Thanks! So the bolt hits the trim ring on the bottom it looks like? I was just in the garage looking at mine and that's basically what I came up with for an idea. I think I'm doing that when I get time! Simplicity at its finest in that design.

Here you go. it takes a 10mm metric bolt

 

[sjetrider]

It would be aweful harder to have a downward angle on your nozle as the preasure will straighten it as soon as you hit the gas. Upward makes a HUGE difference but like everything else you gain in one area and lose in another with upward trim. Level seems to be the best of both worlds to me.
Thrust has an adjustable stop on his setup as well, uparad only of course.

 

[NVJAY775]

I'm still setting mine up with zero static trim angle, but want to be able to play with it a bit just cuz.

 

[jetpilot36]

i have a 61x reduction nozzle with a 62t steering nozzle.im running trim ring also.but no cable and lever.(its all i got) i set mine up to stop on the bottom pivot bolt also.with mine i can get alot of upward angle just by using a slightly longer bolt.i actually had to grind the bolt down to achieve a level angle at full stop.also its metal on metal(trim ring against bolt) so i dont see it wearing out anytime soon if i were to start using my trim.im not a flipper so im not gonna hook it up this year.i just want some hella turns so i can roll.

 

[wydopen]

Here you go. it takes a 10mm metric bolt

how much throw are u getting out of that?? dosnt look like there is much room between the trim ring and steering nozzle so u can get full throw..looks like u already hit it up with the grinder?? if u arnt trying to FW flip u should prob ditch that anyways...keep it simple.

 

[LeftysRule22]

Maybe someone can explain this better to me, but i don't understand the argument that a shorter nozzle gives quicker steering. The angle of the nozzle is the same regardless of length. I do understand that the point of thrust is closer to the ski, but if the angle is the same, why should it matter where the leverage is along that vector? Its still pushing in the same direction. You can push a button with your finger or a ten foot pole from any angle, but the force is still the same. In fact, I would think the more influential adjustment in the situation would be the pivot point for the steering nozzle, which is the same in all cases unless you have modded yours.

In my mind, the benefit of a longer nozzle would simply be a longer path for the thrust to 'laminate' if you will, rather than spew out as soon as it exits the nozzle. Theoretically giving slightly more force.

Enlighten me? I just bought a +20 protec (more for the fact that its a metal nozzle with 2 steering positions than anything else) but havent ridden it yet.