Philip Clemmons
Owner, P&P Performance
- Location
- Richmond, Va
Freestyle Running Powerfactor chamber wet
- Thread starter clouse22
- Start date
WILKEY
SO FAR CHANGE SUCKS!!!!!!
Still 50 lb hull. And nothing counts when you tune it cause you make a 900 feel like a 1200 
scottie mac
X-
I wonder why the top boats at world finals (I'd guess 10 pro and 5 AM) all had dry setups?
Must be something to it
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I was thinking the same thing. What is funny is, for YEARS I sat hear listening to people say dry pipes were 'race pipes' and didn't have bottom end, all top. Then the PFP came out and every swinging d1ck out there said it was a game changer. Now everyone is saying gotta go wet, lol. What is the trick set up on this site changes like the direction of the wind.
SM
- Location
- South Florida
I wonder why the top boats at world finals (I'd guess 10 pro and 5 AM) all had dry setups?
Must be something to it
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.....And there goes my interest in this mod. I listen to what he^^^^ says.
Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
Scottie. You know as well as anybody, more so. That the power delievery of these 1000cc+ motors is different than that from that of the older 701-785cc motors that we use to have to use....... Back when we (I still run one) had the smaller motors. We needed the power down low. really low to help with the tricks.... Roll, Land, stab the gas, get moving. transition into the next trick. Nose Stab/Bronco. Get up get moving...........etc etc......... Now. your time between tricks is either extended or you are doing combos where you are getting on the gas before you even hit the water again keeping the RPM's up higher. I know Peter said the difference between his first DVX and his new one is the tuning is such that the power is coming on a bit later now. But it is working.
SpaceCowboy
breaking something
- Location
- Ypsilanti Michigan
I bet you would be one confused person if you rode Zack's ski with his wet setup.
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Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
Its not rocket science........... Well ok, yes it is. But you get good results with either setup. It is all just different methods of tuning and where you want your power to be.....
- Location
- South Florida
No doubt that Zack knows his stuff, but I have been tuning my ski with Phil's advice from the get go. I stick with one person per motor. Never pick and choose different advice from different people. Stick with one all the way. It's like the movie Ghostbusters, "never cross the streams"
SpaceCowboy
breaking something
- Location
- Ypsilanti Michigan
Well I think @clouse22 was looking for some science behind this, I know I am. I don't like to do things just because everyone on the X is. There is obviously some real good setups both ways but it would be great if we could compare and contrast the benefits of both.
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- Location
- South Florida
We need a good old fashioned "tune off"!
SpaceCowboy
breaking something
- Location
- Ypsilanti Michigan
That would be fun for s#its and giggles. A TPE900 has the same bore and stroke (same exact crankshaft) as a PHP898.
*edit: This is not an attempt to stir the pot!
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Last edited:
this is the perfect quote for this thread.....because they initially believed crossing streams was bad, but in need of more power, they crossed streams and gained so much power it destroyed the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man. just sayin' lol.
- Location
- Germany
I wonder why the top boats at world finals (I'd guess 10 pro and 5 AM) all had dry setups?
Must be something to it
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They go in the setup wake with much more speed then eny other of us . So they dont need the bottomendtorque i think????
Not being a tuner, by any means. And not being close to any TPE specific tuner, i'm somewhat on-my-own. So why the wet PFP conversion worked so well? IDK .
- Location
- detroit MI
my theory is that for 90% of us. a wet pipe makes the power band more linear and more rideable. the low end for learning makes it very nice. the pros. they are on off throttle constantly. and from the looks of the trick combos low end isnt as much of a concern when u are looking for an instant hit of power to get u as high as possible.
scottie mac
X-
Sorry, couldn't disagree more. My old 785 mod motors using the blaster high rev (basically a type 9) had more hit than any wet pipe 785s in the freestyle, freeride community. It comes down to set up. Daren Hedlund, one of the smartest people to ever work in the PWC world said it best, injecting water into a pipe to make up for a loss of bottom end is a crutch for either someone who doesn't know how to set up a ski or a bad pipe design.
Now, I admit, my skis were always well set up and built by some of the best in the industry, but to the fact remains, power is power. I guess I could put it this way, it may be easier to make bottom end hit with water in the chamber, but that doesn't mean it is better, especially when the set up is correct.
SM
- Location
- Harveys Lake PA
http://www.dragonfly75.com/motorbike/ECtheory.html
Understand how the pipe works. Then know what adding water does. It essentially makes the chamber bigger by slowing down the wave being reflected back to the exhaust port. Read it through a few times and get a good grasp on the way a 2 stroke pipe works. I think this will really bring some light to this discussion.
The first paragraph of that article says it all.
Understand how the pipe works. Then know what adding water does. It essentially makes the chamber bigger by slowing down the wave being reflected back to the exhaust port. Read it through a few times and get a good grasp on the way a 2 stroke pipe works. I think this will really bring some light to this discussion.
The first paragraph of that article says it all.
masterblaster
X-H2
Injected dry pipes are making a huge diff to make a motor hit well off bottom with moderate timing lower compression and pump fuel. It isn't very hard to make a 220 + comp motor running on oxy fuel and high timing pull through the bottom where "some" motors have a notorious flat spot in the port timing efficiency and power curve otherwise most the fuel charge is blowing out the exhaust in low rpms. Sounds like zack is getting much better performance out of injection with race fuel setups as well. Pretty sure hiro was on to something with the rrp wet pipe.more than one way to skin a cat
And yeah, not to be a P&P nut swinger, but I've ridden enough different set ups now, that I trust what phil says when it comes to my skis.Still 50 lb hull. And nothing counts when you tune it cause you make a 900 feel like a 1200
My P&P tuned TPE 964 hits like you wouldn't believe, and it's pump gas, dry power factor piped, etc. Now only if my skills would improve to match what the ski can do...
Who ever builds your engine/ski set up, listen to them and follow their advice!
WILKEY
SO FAR CHANGE SUCKS!!!!!!
Ha I'll take my wet version over the dry anyday.... tested back to back.....