Freestyle Running Powerfactor chamber wet

[WILKEY]

Why not try it? The amount of time people spend reading others opinions you could just test for yourself. You can drill and tap the manifold, and put in a spray bar for very little cost. Change the water routing and see for yourself. If you dont like it you can plug that hole with a npt fitting and put it back to dry. All for under $50 and a little of your time.

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Won't be wasting anytime. You will like it anyways..... I had my doubts but damn if I was wrong.

Someone in here was asking for pictures. If you didn't get any let me know and I can snap some for you

 

[DAG]

but to answer your question. If I was spending 5k on a motor, 2K on a pipe setup plus possible 2k on MSD Total Loss. 2K on a pump setup. Whoever I was getting the motor from would be getting hired to help get it setup also. After spending almost $12k on a driveline It is crazy to not pay a few hundred to get the final pieces of the puzzle put in place.

I feel like everyone would agree with the concept quoted above, however, the dollar figure you spent on a drive line might not be enough to match the natural wave of the pipe. So your hired tuner needs you to buy top of the line carbs, TL, and pump setup to even work*. (*this is probably not a true statement, just wanted to make my point clear when read.) Where as if your setup was injected the wave could be dial'ed in with what you have; very cheaply. It may not be a pro level tune, but may be enough to make 99% of the people here more than happy.

 

[speedysprocket]

 

[sneds]

Can you drill and tap anywhere along the raised ridge? Here's a pic to help explain what I'm asking

 

[speedysprocket]

You could go out further to the outside, I was just concerned with hull clearance and also being able to access it easily. Of note, I did accidentally drill too deep for the 1/8 NPT and hit the water jacket. You need to drill a small hole that fits the spray nozzle all the way through, and then the larger hole for the 1/8" NPT only goes as deep at needed to get a few good threads with the tap.

 

[Big Kahuna]

errrrrr. If you get a DASA 1000 and buy a PFP and then throw in a Protec CDI with Mikuni 44's. Adding injection is not going to make your setup work. May make it better. But. I have seen where people have ran the PFP from 1400's down to 760's and it worked. It is all in your setup.

So, If your builders says you need to use A, B, C, D F & G parts to achieve X Result. And you go with A, 2, C, S, V & G parts you may not achieve X Results. You may be close or you may be very far off. Every builder has parts that they like to use. Why? Because they have the knowledge and experience where they know the results.

If you asked Tricky to build you a 1200 cc ski. He is going to go with an XScream 1200, Full Spec 49's, MSD Total Loss. 155 Skat Pump and It is going to work. This is the setup he has done time and time again. You could ask him to use Novi's and he may can make it work just as good or he may not could. Same with a DASA 1200 he can make it work, but it may not be equal. Or toss in a Flame Ignition. Same thing. He has come up with a package that works for him.

Same with Phil. He knows what setup works and he sticks with it.

Zack has openly said you need to run the package that he recommends. he even posted that yes he can make it work if you want to change but it may be different.

As they say on the infomercials "results may vary"

 

[McDog]

errrrrr. If you get a DASA 1000 and buy a PFP and then throw in a Protec CDI with Mikuni 44's. Adding injection is not going to make your setup work. May make it better. But. I have seen where people have ran the PFP from 1400's down to 760's and it worked. It is all in your setup.

So, If your builders says you need to use A, B, C, D F & G parts to achieve X Result. And you go with A, 2, C, S, V & G parts you may not achieve X Results. You may be close or you may be very far off. Every builder has parts that they like to use. Why? Because they have the knowledge and experience where they know the results.

If you asked Tricky to build you a 1200 cc ski. He is going to go with an XScream 1200, Full Spec 49's, MSD Total Loss. 155 Skat Pump and It is going to work. This is the setup he has done time and time again. You could ask him to use Novi's and he may can make it work just as good or he may not could. Same with a DASA 1200 he can make it work, but it may not be equal. Or toss in a Flame Ignition. Same thing. He has come up with a package that works for him.

Same with Phil. He knows what setup works and he sticks with it.

Zack has openly said you need to run the package that he recommends. he even posted that yes he can make it work if you want to change but it may be different.

As they say on the infomercials "results may vary"

....All this just means "never cross the streams"

 

[Big Kahuna]

I do not want to know about you and Pable going to the restroom.

 

[McDog]

 

[masterblaster]

Won't be wasting anytime. You will like it anyways..... I had my doubts but damn if I was wrong.

Someone in here was asking for pictures. If you didn't get any let me know and I can snap some for you

there was alot of detailed pics in the other thread i started about this same thing.

Dag..you are saying what ive been thinking all along.Make the pipe work for what you have NOW quickly.. then when your builder or tuner wants u to buy 3k of extra stuff if u have the money go for it and change or remove injection. Some guys posting here act like all these people that have been shipped these diff motor setups all over the country and world for that matter,can just ship their ski and fly to the VERY few tuners mentioned and then pay them to do it...if they are in your neck of the woods fine,but this is rare.

Anyone that knows 2 strokes knows their is no mod that makes more diff then adding a PROPERLY tuned pipe. It just so happens we use our pipes in the water and we have it readily avail for our injection pipe timing use,sleds,atvs,motox dont have this cheat avail to them. The water injected bpipe was popular for just this reason,no one wanted to use dry pipes and burn up couplers and struggle with tuning them and clog jets in surf,that is until people starting water injecting them and getting them to work much more easily with pre filters even in surf... then the rrp injected pipe came out and it was off to the races for big lay down pipes when larger tanks were made to accommodate them. Sure you will lose a few hp in the up top rpms when the heat factor is higher and changes the wave speed in the pipe,but the torque you gain in low through upper mid is sick.
IF you want both u can get tinkering with a reverse flow control valve in place of msd elec injection that works well and is easily made from billet fuel filter housing and rubber ringed washer,but tough to keep consistently tuned. it is a valve that allows water to flow through up to a certain pressure,then collapses the spring and allows washer to seal. pressure and rpm are equivalent in this application. The problem in a reverse type valve is the spring gets completely collapsed quick and hard with every brap. I think if a larger housing and more heavy duty spring was used it would be sustainable with less spring tention tinkering long term. With as much on off throttle brap as we use in most cases if the stinger is run just a bit more wet,the pipe stays cool enough run like this. OR if you are sustaining rpms alot,you can run the pipes water jacket with water also and use it as a wet and dry pipe at the same time. The best of both worlds. And still have the tunable wave lenth and much less headache tuning.

 

[DAG]

Well don't take what I said as fact. I'm just asking the questions in hopes some of the guys with experience would chime in and disprove before I drilled my pipe lol

 

[masterblaster]

just drill it already, you dont have to run the injection forever in it.lol

 

[LimitedSlip7]

there was alot of detailed pics in the other thread i started about this same thing.

Dag..you are saying what ive been thinking all along.Make the pipe work for what you have NOW quickly.. then when your builder or tuner wants u to buy 3k of extra stuff if u have the money go for it and change or remove injection. Some guys posting here act like all these people that have been shipped these diff motor setups all over the country and world for that matter,can just ship their ski and fly to the VERY few tuners mentioned and then pay them to do it...if they are in your neck of the woods fine,but this is rare.

Anyone that knows 2 strokes knows their is no mod that makes more diff then adding a PROPERLY tuned pipe. It just so happens we use our pipes in the water and we have it readily avail for our injection pipe timing use,sleds,atvs,motox dont have this cheat avail to them. The water injected bpipe was popular for just this reason,no one wanted to use dry pipes and burn up couplers and struggle with tuning them and clog jets in surf,that is until people starting water injecting them and getting them to work much more easily with pre filters even in surf... then the rrp injected pipe came out and it was off to the races for big lay down pipes when larger tanks were made to accommodate them. Sure you will lose a few hp in the up top rpms when the heat factor is higher and changes the wave speed in the pipe,but the torque you gain in low through upper mid is sick.
IF you want both u can get tinkering with a reverse flow control valve in place of msd elec injection that works well and is easily made from billet fuel filter housing and rubber ringed washer,but tough to keep consistently tuned. it is a valve that allows water to flow through up to a certain pressure,then collapses the spring and allows washer to seal. pressure and rpm are equivalent in this application. The problem in a reverse type valve is the spring gets completely collapsed quick and hard with every brap. I think if a larger housing and more heavy duty spring was used it would be sustainable with less spring tention tinkering long term. With as much on off throttle brap as we use in most cases if the stinger is run just a bit more wet,the pipe stays cool enough run like this. OR if you are sustaining rpms alot,you can run the pipes water jacket with water also and use it as a wet and dry pipe at the same time. The best of both worlds. And still have the tunable wave lenth and much less headache tuning.

I was wondering if this would work! I was thinking about using a normally-closed pilot-operated check valve to do this, but all the ones I can find are industrial valves that are way too big and bulky. Wouldn't take much to make a small billet version with a spring tension adjuster screw if you have a mill. Should be able to make them for 1/3 of the cost of an electronic water injection system with much less complexity.

 

[masterblaster]

yes they do work,if you run the valve over board as a test in the water you can find the perfect cut off pressure/rpm setting to run,in that skis pump pressure setup,then micro adjust once ran to the pipe injector for top end cut off. sim to the adjustable threaded jetworks fcv. Someone with a mill should make a 1/2 inch ver that a larger heavy duty stainless spring would fit in,surprised it hasnt been done yet really.. the 3/8 size springs just dont maintain the same tension long enough to be worth it. still better than sticky solenoids and more elec crap to mount and go bad in the hull in salt water though.

 

[LimitedSlip7]

yes they do work,if you run the valve over board as a test in the water you can find the perfect cut off pressure/rpm setting to run,in that skis pump pressure setup,then micro adjust once ran to the pipe injector for top end cut off. sim to the adjustable threaded jetworks fcv. Someone with a mill should make a 1/2 inch ver that a larger heavy duty stainless spring would fit in,surprised it hasnt been done yet really.. the 3/8 size springs just dont maintain the same tension long enough to be worth it. still better than sticky solenoids and more elec crap to mount and go bad in the hull in salt water though.

I've got one drawn up in Inventor, maybe I'll try to sneak the parts in through our machine shop here at work...

 

[Byeai]

Just don't be a askhole (someone who ask for help and when getting the answer does the complete opposite of what was said)

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[scottie mac]

^^^lol.

SM

 

[masterblaster]

I've got one drawn up in Inventor, maybe I'll try to sneak the parts in through our machine shop here at work...

my experience with them was negligible cause i wasnt using the extra power up top it was providing and it was difficult to keep the pressure right,it would eventually collapse to quickly and cause the pipe to over heat. With some extra testing using a larger valve, a valve that uses a pretty large washer sealing surface works better.the larger the washer pushes shut easier,allowing for a much stiffer bigger spring to hold it open under higher pressures,a heavy duty spring is more likely to keep its original tension after being completely compressed for greater and longer duration's. You can also drill micro holes in the washer to allow just a bit of water through when the valve is shut to keep pipe from over heating and still keep in it the right heat and timing zone for sustained top rpm..I just never ride like that. but im sure some here do.

 

[sneds]

I'm really wanting to pick up a drill and put a hole in my manifold but I'm worried about hitting the water jacket. Anyone put thier spray bar in and not hit the jacket? If so, can I get a pic and measurements? Thanks in advance.

 

[speedysprocket]

I'm really wanting to pick up a drill and put a hole in my manifold but I'm worried about hitting the water jacket. Anyone put thier spray bar in and not hit the jacket? If so, can I get a pic and measurements? Thanks in advance.

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