Super Jet Who is running epic hx3 on 61x?
- Thread starter jaxrider
- Start date
masterblaster
X-H2
I think you have to have pretty deep pockets to play that game, and long arms too. My buddy keeps telling me I need to develop one but there's not a chance in hell I want my pockets or arms anywhere near something like that. I have read your posts and in between the lines of your comments for years now and gathered it was not nearly as simple as it sounds.
I'm conflicted on the whole warranty expectation from ATP though. The one Epic in our group gave our buddy absolute fits and cost him a few thousand dollars all said and done. But, that same unit worked flawlessly in every other ski we swapped it into. Sadly it was destroyed, (battery hooked up backwards) before we could get to any resolution on it. So, from our experience, the issue was with the ski electronics themselves and not directly the EPIC. It's sad for my buddy but how do you claim a unit faulty and demand a warranty when it still works in 4 out of 5 skis? I have always maintained that it was a lack of RF shielding or filtering in the power circuit that made it extra sensitive to electrical "noise" but that's hardly any consolation. If nothing else, it would have been nice to find an external filter or some other fix so that the original version wasn't a total write off.
The good news is, the Gen1 EPIC happens to run flawlessly in my ski and spares are getting cheaper and cheaper!
boyer,thats a heck of a test rig ya got there.I always found that epic experience puzzling,Scott said he replaced the stator and FW and most components in ebox right? To finish the story there is leaving out a lil bit of important info,he got a hx3 later that only lasted a short time and burnt up also. I think if everyone here was willing to tell their full story on the epic and hx3 and there were no relationships involved it would be a total diff story and save alot of ignition newbs mega headaches.
What would be really cool is if msd would produce another enhancer with a decent timing curve around 32 deg and alot more safety retard. It would sell like hot cakes,staying analog is the key to long term yami ign success. doing a analog to digital programmable ign is not really necessary in this market of freeride/freestyle and based on past attempts...not a smart move.
Quinc
Buy a Superjet
- Location
- California
Thinking back I did have an issue with my stator at 5k rpm. Perhaps that issue with the stator fried mine?
Other electronics where:
-JSS coil and wired ebox
-di-electric on every connection
-1 season old deka 9 battery
I stand corrected, I had asked previously about a cracked flywheel and not the epic. Sorry about that!
Not sure why you think there is an Epic/HX3 hate wagon, it is a great ignition at a good price. We just want it to last longer. Or a set of installation instructions including a way to test electronics before installing the ignition? An update to the software that gives any kind of idea if it is good or bad or going bad?
Also please post more info on your 4 spark plug setup.
Half flip95
Formerly pondracer95
- Location
- Lake Havasu City AZ
So I may have found something on mine, Maybe. Btw, Chris at air time has been great even 1.5 years after I purchased my HX3. Still answers every email and every question .
Problem started after an engine install. Symptoms, hard labored cranking, cranking kick back, rut rut rut, lock, rut rut rut, lock, rut rut starts. Cranking timing with a light shows 12 to 14 deg both cylinders. After the 2 revolution spark delay, the spark starts and the issue is their.
I find no amount of adjustments fix or alter it. My pulse coil puts out 3V AC with only a slight, minimal toggle of the meter needle at cranking speed. I find a spec from JSS of 4 to 7V AC @ cranking speed with needle toggle using an analog meter.
So far it's looking like my pulse coils low output is suspect for sure.
Tonight I decide to change my spark plugs, look crusty on outside and I find have Polaris long reach plugs BPR8ES installed, must have been some mixed in my box order.
Iam speculating this long reach plug may be a factor as well. It puts the spark like 3 to 4mm further into the cylinder. Maybe Instead of igniting the fuel from the dome and burning down towards the piston, it's igniting 3 to 4mm further in the chamber, burning up to dome and down to piston causing deto and kick back.
Might be reaching a bit but it's all I've found and It's consistent with the symptoms. Either way I don't like it.
It's a dasa 1200 @220 psi
Problem started after an engine install. Symptoms, hard labored cranking, cranking kick back, rut rut rut, lock, rut rut rut, lock, rut rut starts. Cranking timing with a light shows 12 to 14 deg both cylinders. After the 2 revolution spark delay, the spark starts and the issue is their.
I find no amount of adjustments fix or alter it. My pulse coil puts out 3V AC with only a slight, minimal toggle of the meter needle at cranking speed. I find a spec from JSS of 4 to 7V AC @ cranking speed with needle toggle using an analog meter.
So far it's looking like my pulse coils low output is suspect for sure.
Tonight I decide to change my spark plugs, look crusty on outside and I find have Polaris long reach plugs BPR8ES installed, must have been some mixed in my box order.
Iam speculating this long reach plug may be a factor as well. It puts the spark like 3 to 4mm further into the cylinder. Maybe Instead of igniting the fuel from the dome and burning down towards the piston, it's igniting 3 to 4mm further in the chamber, burning up to dome and down to piston causing deto and kick back.
Might be reaching a bit but it's all I've found and It's consistent with the symptoms. Either way I don't like it.
It's a dasa 1200 @220 psi
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
This place likes facts.I understand this forum no longer welcomes Industry professionals or facts but...
@Roseand, You must be deluded to think your Epic works well, get with the cool kids ie Wax etc. This forum won't be happy till you conform
@Vortex, You emailed asking for advice, We gave it and you try to humiliate us on a public forum for no reason
@Quinc, You have a 4-5 year old Epic you bought used, not HX3. YOU DID NOT ASK FOR A DISCOUNT ON A NEW UNIT, NOR DID YOU ASK TO SEND YOURS BACK, Why come on here and lie????
Next time you need forum fuel, go elsewhere.
Anybody genuinely needing help and advice, be assured it will always be freely available.
Lets be honest about the facts. The epic is an epic failure or are you still trying to claim it was caused bystators, flywheels, pulse coils, stop start switches, ride plate colour and all the other excuses that were put to the public that bought your ignition. ??
The right thing to do would have been to offer people their money back on the faulty product. Or even withdraw it off the market as soon as you knew there was an issue with them not just hide your head in the sand and keep selling a known faulty product
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To clarify this whole situation with me an qjc: I asked if there was an update available
title: atp epic no spark when pressing start
Hello I ride with one of your beta testers here in the US. Is there a reflash/update available to address this issue on the earlier model epix units? Performance is great otherwise. Thanks for any help.
reply:
This doesn't sound like an epic problem, more like a problem with your start circuitry. Can you check the battery voltage while the engine is cranking for me? Let me know what you read
On my first ride on this ignition I ran into this issue. Took the ebox back apart, found nothing wrong, put it back together and it worked. It ran well until my stock 701 ate a reed. I bought another engine that is a ported 718 with 215psi compression. My stator is one year old and I have a brand new agm battery. The ignition works amazingly well once it fires up. However, after you ride hard for a few minutes and stop, the ski will not spark again when you press start. The ski is not cranking over slow or showing any signs of a bad battery/connection. It should be firing. If I put the battery on a trickle charge overnight it fires right up.
I read somewhere that the epic resets itself if there is enough of a voltage drop during cranking (why???). Nothing I have found suggests that I have enough of a volt drop to have this issue. I will check again with my meter.
I have a feeling that the ignition is just too sensitive to amp draw. This may not be a problem when you are riding 2 minute flat water routines, but in the ocean or on a buoy course all components are being worked hard. It seems like if you've got high compression, stroker engine, a lot of intial/start timing, the amp draw is perhaps causing the epic to act this way.
title: atp epic no spark when pressing start
Hello I ride with one of your beta testers here in the US. Is there a reflash/update available to address this issue on the earlier model epix units? Performance is great otherwise. Thanks for any help.
reply:
This doesn't sound like an epic problem, more like a problem with your start circuitry. Can you check the battery voltage while the engine is cranking for me? Let me know what you read
On my first ride on this ignition I ran into this issue. Took the ebox back apart, found nothing wrong, put it back together and it worked. It ran well until my stock 701 ate a reed. I bought another engine that is a ported 718 with 215psi compression. My stator is one year old and I have a brand new agm battery. The ignition works amazingly well once it fires up. However, after you ride hard for a few minutes and stop, the ski will not spark again when you press start. The ski is not cranking over slow or showing any signs of a bad battery/connection. It should be firing. If I put the battery on a trickle charge overnight it fires right up.
I read somewhere that the epic resets itself if there is enough of a voltage drop during cranking (why???). Nothing I have found suggests that I have enough of a volt drop to have this issue. I will check again with my meter.
I have a feeling that the ignition is just too sensitive to amp draw. This may not be a problem when you are riding 2 minute flat water routines, but in the ocean or on a buoy course all components are being worked hard. It seems like if you've got high compression, stroker engine, a lot of intial/start timing, the amp draw is perhaps causing the epic to act this way.
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- Location
- Charlotte NC
He said it didn't sound like an epic issue, asked you to check something for him, your response states that you have a brand new battery, but never a voltage while cranking. I get to diagnose issues all day long, but if there are details missed... specially keys ones like voltage while starting, you can't blame them for not helping.
I understand that. I asked if there were any updates available. At no point did I hint at blaming atp, I just thought it was kind of odd for them to start off with "its probably not our problem"
masterblaster
X-H2
vortex.. we had a couple of them that did the same thing years back,tried swapping other new elecs with epic,made no diff. "being speculative here" It was some sort of heat issue in the cdi,sometimes spark would come back sometimes it wouldnt. just unnecessary headache. we just went back to enhancers,but next time it happens try opening ebox and cooling it down quicker with fan and see if you get spark back.The potting cant dissipate the heat fast enough
Wonder how many guys that have had better luck with them are riding flatwater with a small tank short duration rides and never get them very hot.We were riding surf for 2 hours a stretch regularly
Wonder how many guys that have had better luck with them are riding flatwater with a small tank short duration rides and never get them very hot.We were riding surf for 2 hours a stretch regularly
- Location
- South Florida
This actually seems like a real possibility. I never had any trouble but I don't do long riding sessions. Most who have had issues seem to be surf riders. Hmm.
- Location
- Charlotte NC
I have found that if battery voltage dips below a certain point on start up the epic will not fire. But this has to do with the digital ignition or any highly sensitive electronics.
masterblaster
X-H2
Ive noticed most with good luck on epic or hx3 have been small fuel tank riders,usually not surf riders. heat does a number on any brand analog to digital conversion igns for yami. All the brands Wax listed have had sim issues.
a battery that has enough power to turn motor over fast would likely still have high voltage
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
It's not battery voltage. If it spins your ski over that's draining more than the ignition. Sure that may stop it from starting as the electronics will have a cut out voltage. But if it happens when it's runnung and the ski cranks gone after that. You couldn't really blame the battery.
- Location
- Charlotte NC
Sure, if i dies while running. But vortex had a no start issue. But at one point he says that when he hooks it up to the charger and lets it charge it will then spark and run. That's why I said something about battery voltage.
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
We have all been through this. We all know what's wrong. We can beat around the bush trying not to offend people an costing this poor guy money while he throws money at the ski. The realty is that the epic is fried
Quinc
Buy a Superjet
- Location
- California
Keeping it plugged into the laptop while starting offer any information?
- Location
- Charlotte NC
Maybe I have just been lucky. I don't run a kart tank, and when I go ride I don't come back till I need more fuel.
I'm convinced it's heat build up. I typically ride buoys. I come back after running a handful of laps and it won't spark.
The ski never turns over slow. I run a trickle charge between rides for the hell of it. After a day or so the heat dissipates and spark returns.