Why don't I ever see dyno's?

[tntsuperjet]

We will post the hp numbers of all our kit motors in the spring.
Including our new 1450cc
Along with all the hp numbers of the same kits with all the major brands of pipes.
And the only thing that will come of that info is people won't have a clew as to what to do with those numbers.
Because there worthless without the proper setup.
This is why we do all of our testing on the water with data loggers and acceleration graphs.
Besides, it's really not much fun riding a dyno!!

 

[Vumad]

it's really not much fun riding a dyno!!

So many excellent points and you conclude with this nonsense.
Obama looks like hes fun.

 

[WB1994]

We will post the hp numbers of all our kit motors in the spring.
Including our new 1450cc
Along with all the hp numbers of the same kits with all the major brands of pipes.
And the only thing that will come of that info is people won't have a clew as to what to do with those numbers.
Because there worthless without the proper setup.
This is why we do all of our testing on the water with data loggers and acceleration graphs.
Besides, it's really not much fun riding a dyno!!

95% of the people who buy your pipe couldnt tune themselves out of a paper bag. Some of us dumb Xh20 folk are just jetski fans and enjoy stupid info to help get our minds off our daily routine. We arent looking to build a spaceship. Not to mention winters on our doorstep so we need some more substance for some drama.

 

[Quinc]

We will post the hp numbers of all our kit motors in the spring.
Including our new 1450cc
Along with all the hp numbers of the same kits with all the major brands of pipes.
And the only thing that will come of that info is people won't have a clew as to what to do with those numbers.
Because there worthless without the proper setup.
This is why we do all of our testing on the water with data loggers and acceleration graphs.
Besides, it's really not much fun riding a dyno!!

What are you using for the data and accelerator loggers etc? I enjoy tuning and am always looking for new tools.

 

[Quinc]

A quick and easy test that could be done to verify different changes. Hook it up to your trailer at the lake. Be fun to see all the different builders go head to head at WF or somewhere for a most powerful ski contest too.

 

[Lumpy]

A quick and easy test that could be done to verify different changes. Hook it up to your trailer at the lake. Be fun to see all the different builders go head to head at WF or somewhere for a most powerful ski contest too.

are you proposing a tractor pull with skis instead of tractors?

 

[Quinc]

are you proposing a tractor pull with skis instead of tractors?

The above is a tool used for measuring thrust. But I like the tug o war idea even better!

 

[Big Kahuna]

Tug of war with tires designed for dirt and clay being used on a asphalt dragstrip. The irony.

 

[kevbo]

A quick and easy test that could be done to verify different changes. Hook it up to your trailer at the lake. Be fun to see all the different builders go head to head at WF or somewhere for a most powerful ski contest too.

Ive done that. Stock pumps with Concords would pull 600lbs no matter how powerful the engine was. This was done with the ski strapped to an open trailer and sunk up to the hood. A local shop reported 800lbs static on big sitdowns. It takes some forward movement to get head pressure and reduce cavitation.

 

[masterblaster]

We will post the hp numbers of all our kit motors in the spring.
Including our new 1450cc
Along with all the hp numbers of the same kits with all the major brands of pipes.
And the only thing that will come of that info is people won't have a clew as to what to do with those numbers.
Because there worthless without the proper setup.
This is why we do all of our testing on the water with data loggers and acceleration graphs.
Besides, it's really not much fun riding a dyno!!

most of us would be interested in more useful info like a well charted graph with overlayed colors for brands c.c size pump size pipe type and injection info with rpm illustrated. you can leave off the hp value and no one will care.
of course if the setup isn't listed it's worthless. there are getting to be some broken sounding records here concerning useless data comments. we all are aware what it would take to be meaningfully data
to the above point. a tractor pull weight that progressively applies makes more sense than tug of war. a long cable on a spool with a progressive load with measuring marks on it could be very interesting to gauge total ski power thrust and motor

kevbo nailed it. I didn't wanna say it in those terms in trying to keep it positive. but a uninformed customer is just easier to sell the hype

Every other motor sport has info like this,read the first paragraph carefully,all machines have their challenges in creating real world load,doesnt make the data any less useful.With dig pressure gauges,even a water injected pipe can be chart plotted
http://motocrossactionmag.com/news/...nts-ratings-by-pros-intermediates-and-novices

IF there were a graph like this for motor brands by cc and pipe types on the same motor in our ski market,youd see some big change in the industry quickly. from 50cc to the moon cc,all other markets have power cure info to choose from for your fav riding style!

 

[tntsuperjet]

So if I read this right you expect a pipe builder to go out and buy 45-60k of available motors and figure out how to tune every one to show people how they work and how to set them up??

 

[tntsuperjet]

Try and get a dyno chart from FMF, yosh or PC. On anything but a stock motor!!

 

[Ratking]

So if I read this right you expect a pipe builder to go out and buy 45-60k of available motors and figure out how to tune every one to show people how they work and how to set them up??

We are not talking strictly about a pipe builder but an engine builder. And he would have to do that once on each motor he builds to collect the data we need. He could buy the service from a third party testing facility and easily get away with far less than 45k$ But since most of you don't think anyone is clever enough to use the data except the few elitists we should just do what the builders always do, give undocumented hype that sells without any critical thought.

 

[Big Kahuna]

We are not talking strictly about a pipe builder but an engine builder. And he would have to do that once on each motor he builds to collect the data we need. He could buy the service from a third party testing facility and easily get away with far less than 45k$ But since most of you don't think anyone is clever enough to use the data except the few elitists we should just do what the builders always do, give undocumented hype that sells without any critical thought.

Front the money for the builders then.......... They do not have to. They (Xscream, PHP, TPE, DASA, TNT, Jetworks) have been providing well built motors for years. Their results speak for themselves. They do not have to have DYNO numbers to show that their motors make good power. I do not understand this "The data we need" mess. There is no need, only a want. And there are honestly only a few here who actually have the smarts to be able to utilize that data........... I am not one of them. A Dyno is just a tuning tool, not a magic wand. I agree with previous comments. Most will be let down when they actually saw their peak HP #'s. Just because your Dumbo 1600cc will make 295hp at 670000 RPM, it does not mean squat if your running the wrong pump size, nozzle size and prop pitch. that DYNO number is not going to help you get your ski to jump out of its own way because the end user did not follow the builders suggested package and used what he felt was the best package........... @swapmeet Would you find a beating a dead horse gif for me? I can read a dyno chart better than I can posting gif's

 

[Ratking]

Front the money for the builders then.......... They do not have to. They (Xscream, PHP, TPE, DASA, TNT, Jetworks) have been providing well built motors for years. Their results speak for themselves. They do not have to have DYNO numbers to show that their motors make good power. I do not understand this "The data we need" mess. There is no need, only a want. And there are honestly only a few here who actually have the smarts to be able to utilize that data........... I am not one of them. A Dyno is just a tuning tool, not a magic wand. I agree with previous comments. Most will be let down when they actually saw their peak HP #'s. Just because your Dumbo 1600cc will make 295hp at 670000 RPM, it does not mean squat if your running the wrong pump size, nozzle size and prop pitch. that DYNO number is not going to help you get your ski to jump out of its own way because the end user did not follow the builders suggested package and used what he felt was the best package........... @swapmeet Would you find a beating a dead horse gif for me? I can read a dyno chart better than I can posting gif's

Since I have a DASA motor with a TNT chamber I know that they make good power and they also know what they are doing. But even when I know that I still think that having a way of measuring what kind of torque the motor produces is a great way of knowing what the different builders can do. It would not make any difference if a DASA made 150 or 200hp since the already have a good reputation. And people know what they are. If I had a dyno plot from a DASA I could compare that to an unknown engine builder. It could actually help builders that are new to the scene. And also people looking to buy a new motor. No more subjective bias towards a certain brand, since the data is there.

 

[xzibit a]

Since I have a DASA motor with a TNT chamber I know that they make good power and they also know what they are doing. But even when I know that I still think that having a way of measuring what kind of torque the motor produces is a great way of knowing what the different builders can do. It would not make any difference if a DASA made 150 or 200hp since the already have a good reputation. And people know what they are. If I had a dyno plot from a DASA I could compare that to an unknown engine builder. It could actually help builders that are new to the scene. And also people looking to buy a new motor. No more subjective bias towards a certain brand, since the data is there.

All of the counter points have been made already to counter this exact statement.

If you want to compare motors go find someone with the same hull and pump setup as you with the same ignition and pipe and carbs. then ride them back to back. And hope that they are both tuned well.

Jace said it best. His finger is the best testing tool on the market. when he rides a ski it either feels good or it doesn't. powerband setup is a very personalized thing in our sport. that's not really that available in other motorsports.

 

[Big Kahuna]

All of the counter points have been made already to counter this exact statement.

If you want to compare motors go find someone with the same hull and pump setup as you with the same ignition and pipe and carbs. then ride them back to back. And hope that they are both tuned well.

Jace said it best. His finger is the best testing tool on the market. when he rides a ski it either feels good or it doesn't. powerband setup is a very personalized thing in our sport. that's not really that available in other motorsports.

That is true also. Closest thing would be a 2 stroke MX bike. Some might like the powerband down low, others farther up in the mid range.

 

[xzibit a]

That is true also. Closest thing would be a 2 stroke MX bike. Some might like the powerband down low, others farther up in the mid range.

Funny I was talking to Eric from TPE this past weekend and we started talking about dirt bikes and how they could modify 2 stroke cylinders to make useable power. But that doesn't happen. 4 strokes took over and no one is pushing the 2 stroke side anymore. I don't know it it happened back in the day when 2 strokes were all they had, but even still you cant tune the exhaust on a mx bike without changing pipes. there is no tuning of the exhaust like we have it. they don't have 50 different versions of the same carbs that have modified boosters in different ways. you just have off the self parts and you try to find the best combo.

 

[badvinny]

So if I read this right you expect a pipe builder to go out and buy 45-60k of available motors and figure out how to tune every one to show people how they work and how to set them up??

And they want this for free to them, because they may be a customer one day and possibly buy a pipe from you! Lol

 

[Big Kahuna]

Funny I was talking to Eric from TPE this past weekend and we started talking about dirt bikes and how they could modify 2 stroke cylinders to make useable power. But that doesn't happen. 4 strokes took over and no one is pushing the 2 stroke side anymore. I don't know it it happened back in the day when 2 strokes were all they had, but even still you cant tune the exhaust on a mx bike without changing pipes. there is no tuning of the exhaust like we have it. they don't have 50 different versions of the same carbs that have modified boosters in different ways. you just have off the self parts and you try to find the best combo.

If I am remembering you could buy typically 2 chambers, a low rev and a high rev or something like that. Moved the powerband some. Also you can play with your sprocket size just like we do props.