I got this off their website, also damage from immersion in liquid is a no no....
Ballistic Batteries Warranty
- Thread starter Matt_E
- Start date
Rather than recalling units out there, they are most likely integrating a slow change over to the new policy.
hornedogg79
dodgin' bass boats
I have a brand new warranty replacement 12cell sitting in the box at home. Not sure If I trust it enough to put it back in. Swimming home sucks.
I am not sure they are at that level of competency.
- Location
- Fort Sask, AB
These LiFe batteries are essentially ideal for our total loss system. Ballistic is just CYA'ing themselves for people over discharging the cells.
These LiFePO4 cells can be safely drawn down to 2.0v/cell; irreversible damage usually starts to happen at 1.5V/cell (each cell is nominal at 3.3v). You would have to get you pack below 6v total to do any major damage due to over discharge from a total loss. Which I don't think would happen during a tank of riding. Once the amp/hours were too low the pack would not even crank the starter on our skis not allowing you to draw or even keep trying to use the pack.. And since these packs have the Pb equivalent Amp Hours they are just as good for cranking vs PbA or Gel Cells but with less maintenance if you use a balance charger.
The main issue I see with these packs is either a possible shorts from water intrusion, which if the case is intact ie not cracked, isn't going to happen on the ballistic or having the terminal plates separate from the battery; as mine did. Once that is fixed then these are really the battery of the future, high discharge throughout the packs range of Ah, fast charging capability, low amp loss when not in use, and low environmental impact as they contain no toxic heavy metals and only 2-3lbs! Also what other battery can you rebuild yourself for a fraction of the cost of new as long as you know how to solder?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
These LiFePO4 cells can be safely drawn down to 2.0v/cell; irreversible damage usually starts to happen at 1.5V/cell (each cell is nominal at 3.3v). You would have to get you pack below 6v total to do any major damage due to over discharge from a total loss. Which I don't think would happen during a tank of riding. Once the amp/hours were too low the pack would not even crank the starter on our skis not allowing you to draw or even keep trying to use the pack.. And since these packs have the Pb equivalent Amp Hours they are just as good for cranking vs PbA or Gel Cells but with less maintenance if you use a balance charger.
The main issue I see with these packs is either a possible shorts from water intrusion, which if the case is intact ie not cracked, isn't going to happen on the ballistic or having the terminal plates separate from the battery; as mine did. Once that is fixed then these are really the battery of the future, high discharge throughout the packs range of Ah, fast charging capability, low amp loss when not in use, and low environmental impact as they contain no toxic heavy metals and only 2-3lbs! Also what other battery can you rebuild yourself for a fraction of the cost of new as long as you know how to solder?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery
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- Location
- Pacific Northwest
if it is any assistance, i may be able to source some 20AH LiFePO4 cells and make a starting battery for you guys' jets.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
the total weight of the 4 cells needed to make such a battery would weigh 1920 grams. and cost $128.44. now about a case, i would have to purchase the cells, fasten them together, solder them in series and then find out how big that makes them and then find/make a case for them and then solder some terminals onto them. i would appreciate some input as to what connector/terminals you all would like on them. i WILL NOT be putting bare terminals like is on a typical Lead-Acid battery. i will either use Sermos or Bullet connectors. Bullet connectors can at least be made nearly waterproof.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
the capacity is about 288 watt-hours. (14.4v * 20AH)
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
oh, i just found the dimensions of these cells. a pack made with 4 of them ( in series) would measure 166mm x 227mm x 28mm ( each one is 7mm thick) then, figure i'd use .090" thick lexan glued to them on all 6 sides. they would be encapsuled with either liquid rubber or silicone, then i would wrap the whole thing with carbon fiber sheeting and impregnate it with epoxy, put that all in a vacuum bag and set it overnight ( epoxy is a lot easier than resin and it will be plenty strong) total dimensions will probably be close to 235mm x 180mm ( need room for the wires) x 35mm ( thicker here for sidewall rigidity) i will use 4 gauge wires with 8MM bullets or a connector similar to what you'd find on a scissor lift charging connector.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
oh, and for the total-loss folks, i would install a cell-monitoring readout device along with a battery protecting circuitry so that you have warning and knowledge of the status of your cells and total pack voltage.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
i would also make it to where the monitor wasn't drawing voltage constantly by incorporating a switch. i would also incorporate a balance connector so when you charge the pack ( using a Junsi iCharger (either a 106b+ or a 206b (10A max and 20A max, respectively) you can make sure the cells have the best chance of surviving to a long life. i could also use the 26650 cells you are all used to and do something similar to harden the pack and make it a hell of a lot more durable than what these guys have, having looked at the picture that crab printed out for me.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
when i say cost, i mean my cost, plus shipping ( just wanted to clarify that).
If anyone wants to knwo, mattio79 is a buddy at work, we have been talking about this since there seems to be a need for a battery similar to the Ballistic 16 cell, only made to handle the harsh marine enviroment and pounding we put our boats through.
- Location
- Fort Sask, AB
A LVA with an LED light or buzzer would be awesome, same with the cell monitoring device. 20Ah would be a great battery capacity.
As long as we can maintain the C rating of a ballistic type cells (30C continuous, 60C burst) there should be no reason the packs wouldn't work the same.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
i found some woven 3k carbon fiber/kevlar-29 cloth that i can wrap the cells in and soak the living heck out of it with epoxy, get a foodsaver bag system and vacuum it all together and let it set inside the bag. the total cost ( for me to purchase all of the things i need to make this happen) is $25 for the cloth, $10 for the epoxy, $128.44 for the cells, 8 gauge ( 4 gauge is excessive) wire at $3.39/meter 8mm gold bullet connectors ( i would solder on the one set and send you the mating set so you can either make an adapter or solder them directly to your battery leads) $36 shipped for a dozen pairs. $4 plus shipping for 4s balance leads, and a 2-8s cell checker with LVA for $3.64. the only thing i want out of this is to pay for my labor. i would ask for $50. most of this stuff is coming from one place, so i can combine shipping and save there. $287 for the first one and probably $250 for each one up to 12, then the same thing all over. i would have no warranty given to me with regards to the pack cells, but the ratings of them are very attractive. 3500 cycles with 100% DOD (depth of discharge) 2400w/kg power output (the weight of the pack of cells is 1920grams) ABUSE TEST RESULTS: nail penetration- PASS-EUCAR 3 ( leakage, no venting, no flame,no rupture, no explosion, loss of less than 50% of electrolyte( solvent+salt) OVERCHARGE -PASS-EUCAR 3, OVERDISCHARGE-PASS-EUCAR 3, THERMAL STABILITY -PASS- EUCAR 4 ( venting, no flame, no rupture, no explosion, loss of greater to or equal of 50% of electrolyte) (thermal stability is setting great heat to it and passing thermal threshold (say your jetski is on fire and the battery is in the path of the flame). so they are very safe.
anyway, let me know what you all would like to do.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
i would also shrinkwrap the terminals and polarize them so reverse polarity is less likely as well as using red for positive and black for negative. also, to ensure that everything is sealed, i would get that spray rubber stuff you see on tv that the guy sprayed on the screen door that was installed on that dinghy and he experienced no leakage. i would seal up everything so that it could be waterproofed.
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
the power output of each cell is 1200W. since there is 65wHr specific energy capacity in each cell, the C rating for a 10 second burst is an average of 18.46C still, that's 363 amps. the 60C burst of the 26650 cells that the ballistic battery uses is for 10 seconds as well, but external testing sets the voltage sag all the way down to 2.6v. that's pretty low. 60C X 2.5Ah ( each cell) X4 (parallel configuration) is 600A. the wire they use will only handle 100A. so their ratings are meaningless. http://info.a123systems.com/Portals/133376/docs/amp20m1hd-a data sheet.pdf
the total power output of the battery that i would make is 4800W.