The Dyno story

[K-SCARB]

Dyno????

I have been around all kinds of Dyno's my whole life. This Pic. is not a dyno that will give you any kind of HP reading. We all know that HP is figured by torque and RPM. This contraption has none of these measurements available especially a torque measurement. It may however load the motors for break in purposes and tuning. When I look at it it looks to be 25+ years old and was never built to have a 50+hp motor on it. So any kind of HP assumption is out of the question and tuning would be almost pointless.

Anyway HRP Motorsports does have a couple of real dyno's. We are located in Rockford MI. Currently the dyno that we use for our watercraft/snowmobile motors is at Warnert Racing. Warnert racing is the Ski-doo Factory Snow Cross race team located in MN. Brad Hulings the owner and operator of HRP Motorsports/Dyno and is the acting general manager of the 5 teams at Warnert Racing. The Dyno will be available in April for use.

If anyone would like to have some dyno work done please call Aaron @ 616-822-6962 cell. Aaron is Brad's son and is currently running HRP in his free time and is building a couple of motors for next year to compete with. Aaron and I are currently building wamiltons boats with 6mm motors. Should be a real nice package. Last year our motors had a true 123hp with stock cylinders and under 800cc. We expect to be in the 130-135hp range with the improvements over this winter. Please see pics of real dyno. Before anyone asks the laptop is with the dyno in MN. I will not be able to provide a print out right now, HP print outs will be available to anyone having dyno work done at HRP. Customer is welcome to be present for the dyno work being done.

Also Aaron and I (Kyle) work at Team Alpine (Yamaha Kawasaki Dealership). We are available during the day mon-fri at 616-784-1221.

 

[snowxr]

This gets me thinking being an engineer I think I can build me a Dyno out of McMaster Carr using a pressure transducer then sensor to network converter or for a lap top possibly a sensor modem. :naughty:

Just a thought.

Mark44

Then you can turn my TV remote into a radar gun. Engineers.....
okey:

 

[Matt_E]

Then you can turn my TV remote into a radar gun. Engineers.....
okey:

Sorry. TV remote - IR (Infrared) tx/rx.
Radar = Radar != IR

 

[Mark44]

Then you can turn my TV remote into a radar gun. Engineers.....
okey:

Sorry that is an infra red signal we will need to be able to bounce back a signal the remote acts like a morse code signal to its chip then to the TV kind of.

I think?

Mark44

 

[snowxr]

Sorry. TV remote - IR (Infrared) tx/rx.
Radar = Radar != IR

Er... YEAH, what he said! :dunno:

 

[Mark44]

Ok back on topic sorry.

Lets get back to the drama Paul its your turn.

Mark44

 

[eel]

For everyones info, the type of prop dyno that this is was invented for stock outboards. It was a great idea that didn't work that good. The original idea was a device that allowed an outboard technitian to "watertest" a completed job without going to the water.

You used to get a reading on the dial that should coincide with the chart on the sheet for the particular brand, hp and yr model.

I have never used one personally, but we did stuff at tech with them.

I did my time at a marina, throw the boat in the piss and run it was the most accurate test.

Times have changed, but testing has not. The most accurate test is still to put it in the piss.

Either method is as accurate as each other if you want to put a definitave number on an engine. Both pulling numbers out of ya bum.

A water brake dyno can still be highly accurate, it's just a method of load. The new electro flux loiad dyno's are easier to use and lend themselves to computer aquisition (and tuning!, you can take the the mountain to mohammed, not mohammed to the mountain!) You just need accurate means of measurement.

 

[tom21]

whats in a number anyway- it has less to do with rider skill and more to do with bragging rights-you should be able to guesstimate hp anyway- who cares?

I thought this thread was bout paul having a dyno. anyone ever see it? who lives in jersey and frequented the shop that is trustworthy to give some info on this?

ahhh- this is like the 220hp x-2- I really don't care- later

 

[Mark44]

whats in a number anyway- it has less to do with rider skill and more to do with bragging rights-you should be able to guesstimate hp anyway- who cares?

I thought this thread was bout paul having a dyno. anyone ever see it? who lives in jersey and frequented the shop that is trustworthy to give some info on this?

ahhh- this is like the 220hp x-2- I really don't care- later

I don’t really think it matters anymore what is done in done as Katie stated “if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck?” :thinkerg:

What a tangled web. :no:

Mark44

 

[The Penguin]

Ok back on topic sorry.

Lets get back to the drama Paul its your turn.

Mark44

Paul has no i-net access from the shop anymore.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

conversely,

in my eyes, it looks like a witch hunt, based upon some personal B.S.

I don’t really think it matters anymore what is done in done as Katie stated “if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck?” :thinkerg:

What a tangled web. :no:

Mark44

 

[K-SCARB]

I though this thread was for a motor builder defending that he had a working dyno. Which is still up in the air. A honest motor builder would not say hp numbers or charge for dyno work if he doesn't have one. Its not about bragging rights or guesstimating hp. A great motor builder will give you what you want and charge you accordingly. He will also provide actual information supporting what he says. Without these tools and integrity, any motor builder will have a tough time in the High performance engine building business.

 

[Prem1x]

Hey.... how did you get that popcorn smiley?:icon16:

Kathy, over at the Delightful Biteful forum are there crazy threads where people claim there were never raisins in a cake from 2005 or claiming how all their friends got food poisoning from the mac&cheese but they just aren't saying?

Not picking on anybody, but I just had this epiphany and thought it is cracking me up. Do you have a link to your Delightful Biteful forum? I'm getting burned out on reading all jet-ski crap.

 

[Superjet3]

Ok, well my very close friend David Natkie worked for Paul for about 5 years as a mechanic before he got screwed over with a sponsorship (H20-X) from the old 24-7 and then Paul sold all of his ********. Now Dave has a Hull and no motor and hasn’t ridden in years... This is a real shame because he was/is a very talented rider. Anyway, there is / was no dyno at Paul’s shop. I spent days helping him pack everything into a trailer and there was no sign of it... Not to mention all the times I was down there hanging out over the last 10 or so years.
that’s my 2 cents for what its worth.

 

[crammit442]

conversely,

in my eyes, it looks like a witch hunt, based upon some personal B.S.

How would you feel if you had spent months or even years saving your hard earned money to build a motor largely based on the horsepower claims of the builder you chose? What's worse is that the #'s claimed were not in line with other respected names in the business. They were greatly over anyone else in the industry. When he and I were discussing my carbon fiber chambers it occurred to me that torque values might be even more important than hp #'s. I asked him about this and he said he had been looking at HP, but was going to begin lookin into torque #'s soon. That should be a pretty large red flag. HP is derived directly from torque, particularly inlight of the "dyno" he has pictured. Many people here have fairly limited means and the fact that a particular builder uses fabricated HP claims to get your business is not much different than fraud. Worse yet, what if you spent time building a boat and had quoted the builder's claimed HP #'s publicly only to find they were bogus? Would you not feel like a fool that had been taken advantage of? These claims have been used to sell products over other builders who actually have good reputations. How about the 2005 buildoff boat paul had for sale for $28,500? He actually had 190 HP in the ad. That would certainly be the only way to justify such a price for a stock hulled boat. He still claims on his website to have "certified" technicians in his shop. That could easily play into a customers decision to use him. Also, I've been told he is not responding during the day because he actually works for a bike shop and NOT at LPW during the day. If that is true how would you feel knowing you're waiting on parts from a guy who only works on jetski stuff part time. Maybe that would explain some of the delays. Again, no problem as long as it's disclosed up front. The smart thing would have been to admit the deception and throw himself on the mercy of the court, so to speak. Even Penguin said it's pretty clear to everyone that paul never had a dyno. You think he has a personal vendetta also?

 

[Mark44]

p

Ok, well my very close friend David Natkie worked for Paul for about 5 years as a mechanic before he got screwed over with a sponsorship (H20-X) from the old 24-7 and then Paul sold all of his ********. Now Dave has a Hull and no motor and hasn’t ridden in years... This is a real shame because he was/is a very talented rider. Anyway, there is / was no dyno at Paul’s shop. I spent days helping him pack everything into a trailer and there was no sign of it... Not to mention all the times I was down there hanging out over the last 10 or so years.
that’s my 2 cents for what its worth.

Hold on kids and keep your arms and legs in the ride at all times this is going to get bumpy. :scared::scared:

Mark44

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

Charles,

If I were to comment on how I felt in your given scenario, it would be purely speculation.

 

[Tuttle]

Charles,

If I were to comment on how I felt in your given scenario, it would be purely speculation.

I thought that's what these forums were for....speculation!!! :jester:

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

There has been PLENTY of speculation, that is for sure.

To be honest though, if Paul lied through his TEETH, and has never had an engine last more than 3 months, and has taken advantage of numerous people,

he has STILL been more professional, more pleasant,and more informative, than most of the folks trying to burn him out. ( the broken record folks)

( Charles, you might be the one exception there, you are GENERALLY well spoken, factual and thought out)

I thought that's what these forums were for....speculation!!! :jester:

 

[Mrs. Pancake]

Ok, well my very close friend David Natkie worked for Paul for about 5 years as a mechanic before he got screwed over with a sponsorship (H20-X) from the old 24-7 and then Paul sold all of his ********. Now Dave has a Hull and no motor and hasn’t ridden in years... This is a real shame because he was/is a very talented rider. Anyway, there is / was no dyno at Paul’s shop. I spent days helping him pack everything into a trailer and there was no sign of it... Not to mention all the times I was down there hanging out over the last 10 or so years.
that’s my 2 cents for what its worth.

How would you feel if you had spent months or even years saving your hard earned money to build a motor largely based on the horsepower claims of the builder you chose? What's worse is that the #'s claimed were not in line with other respected names in the business. They were greatly over anyone else in the industry. When he and I were discussing my carbon fiber chambers it occurred to me that torque values might be even more important than hp #'s. I asked him about this and he said he had been looking at HP, but was going to begin lookin into torque #'s soon. That should be a pretty large red flag. HP is derived directly from torque, particularly inlight of the "dyno" he has pictured. Many people here have fairly limited means and the fact that a particular builder uses fabricated HP claims to get your business is not much different than fraud. Worse yet, what if you spent time building a boat and had quoted the builder's claimed HP #'s publicly only to find they were bogus? Would you not feel like a fool that had been taken advantage of? These claims have been used to sell products over other builders who actually have good reputations. How about the 2005 buildoff boat paul had for sale for $28,500? He actually had 190 HP in the ad. That would certainly be the only way to justify such a price for a stock hulled boat. He still claims on his website to have "certified" technicians in his shop. That could easily play into a customers decision to use him. Also, I've been told he is not responding during the day because he actually works for a bike shop and NOT at LPW during the day. If that is true how would you feel knowing you're waiting on parts from a guy who only works on jetski stuff part time. Maybe that would explain some of the delays. Again, no problem as long as it's disclosed up front. The smart thing would have been to admit the deception and throw himself on the mercy of the court, so to speak. Even Penguin said it's pretty clear to everyone that paul never had a dyno. You think he has a personal vendetta also?

:shocked1: