Why don't I ever see dyno's?

erik mx45

erik mx45

Location
outer banks
jo5hi3 said:
Shhh, or masterswallower will have to come in here and call you a chronie....
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how can a 11 port cylinder be the same as a 7 port cylinder? and also art has posted before he picked 1107 because i liked the number 7 i believe it is actually a 1103 or something but not 100% sure but does it realy matter in long run ! dirt bikes are not realy 125,250 or 450s either , get my point i dont support either i just chose the et because it was way cheaper and for me thats good enough! and power is awsome
 
Christian_83

Christian_83

Xscream
Location
Denmark
The displacement is a expression of bore vs stroke. That have nothing to do with the cylinder and port design.
TPE is a Cast 11 port nicasil cylinder.
ET is a billet sleeved 6 port ( i assume) cylinder.
 
WB1994

WB1994

Location
Amherst NH
jo5hi3 said:
Shhh, or masterswallower will have to come in here and call you a chronie....
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Calls TPE loyalists chronies , friends with Art , has a TPE motor ....... hmmm , i wonder where Art got his hands on a TPE motor? The biggest loudmouth in this threads been pretty silent.
 
E-Tech

E-Tech

Location
ON
tntsuperjet said:
I don't have any stress.
You don't answer questions.
Unless you consider asking another question an answer.
MB, you negate everything solid answer and twist the comments to create drama or another question.
Example. Dry pipe on dyno vs wet pipe.
I will explain this again and try to dumb it down enough for everyone to understand.
Dry pipe has no water mixed with exhaust. So it runs 1000to 1250 deg F.
When you run that boat in the water or on the dyno the Exh is in the same temp range because it's not being cooked by water.
So when you dyno a dry pipe it's very common to see slightly higher temps because of the added load the dyno creates that the prop cannot supply to the. Motor in the water.
Now we go to a wet pipe and utilizing the same jet size run in the water you see exhaust temps in the 580-700 range on the dyno.
In the water we see 150-200 deg exh temps in the chamber.
By cutting the temp in half the tune length of the pipe has changed by 30% at a min. Because of the gross affect of exhaust gas temp vs speed.
There for the dyno is of very little use because a dyno run of less then 1.5 seconds doesn't have repeatable data. Meaning every sweep shows a different power level and the more sweeps you use causes more temp climb.
You can't grasp this knowledge because you don't understand the effects of temps tire vs speed of exh gasses.
So basically you cannot use the dyno pipe on the water because it can't be replicated on the water.
Is that clear??
I want a yes or no answer to that very question.
Do you understand that knowledge. ??
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A dyno run time depends on the operator. I have done 30 second pulls wide open and also 2 second pulls, and they do repeat down to 1 hp. Have tried every combos , wet pipe with the powerfactor chamber works better all round. Dry with the PF pipe does not seem to make best results for freestyle. You can't have both worlds low end with a hot pipe. You can try electronic injection seems to work for CC racing but not for freestyle.
My dyno is just a tool to find 2 hp or 5 hp and use all the gains and apply them and learn. Every engine has different characteristics.
My findings may not work with other engines.
 
erik mx45

erik mx45

Location
outer banks
WB1994 said:
Calls TPE loyalists chronies , friends with Art , has a TPE motor ....... hmmm , i wonder where Art got his hands on a TPE motor? The biggest loudmouth in this threads been pretty silent.
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good thing u know the story and have all the answers ! funny mb does not even know art!
 
erik mx45

erik mx45

Location
outer banks
E-Tech said:
A dyno run time depends on the operator. I have done 30 second pulls wide open and also 2 second pulls, and they do repeat down to 1 hp. Have tried every combos , wet pipe with the powerfactor chamber works better all round. Dry with the PF pipe does not seem to make best results for freestyle. You can't have both worlds low end with a hot pipe. You can try electronic injection seems to work for CC racing but not for freestyle.
My dyno is just a tool to find 2 hp or 5 hp and use all the gains and apply them and learn. Every engine has different characteristics.
My findings may not work with other engines.
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have you used a rrp pipe at all ?
 
zimmy

zimmy

Come on Kahuna, when does a thread involving MB or dyno numbers ever stay on track, they are doomed from the moment they are started...

As for erik mx45, if you don't have all the details on how ET has built his product it is best that you try not to bring light to the situation. Scottie and Glen aren't lying, its just the ET fan boys and MB who want to come to his rescue, all with an agenda.

ET products are inferior to TPE products in all ways. Whatever dyno numbers ET posts, just know that the TPE will stomp it. TPE is more power per dollar spent than any motor out there, the design is the best the industry has seen, period.
 
tntsuperjet

tntsuperjet

Tntperformance-engineering.com
Location
Georgetown ca
Woooooaaaa
Reading that last thread is a dead bash and I don't think it has any place here.
There no proof the TPE is all that and the ET ISNT all that.
I have ridden several TPE engines and I can say the 964 has surprised me the most so far for a stock stroke motor. It's quite impressive
I have never ridden a et motor to compare.
But to flat out stick anyone on a pedistal like that is personal and unfounded slander.
Please don't do that around me.
I have worked a little bit with TPE and know them and like what they do.
I have not worked With Et so I can't state any comments on there product because I don't have first hand knowledge of there performance, because I have not tuned one of there engines for water craft. So unless you have apple to apple
Personally with your own knowledge and having setup both motors to there best possible performance there no room to be saying anything like that
No matter what engine builder you speak about we have all had our teething pains. Some worse then others.
I have had several Etech sled motors in my shop, but never one of there watercraf. So I will say I can't compare and there for let there designs find there homes in the publics hands.

E-tech, 2 second dyno run isn't anywhere close to a full throttle on the water pull in a free ride boat.
The longest I have ever been able to stay loaded in a free ride boat from 1500rpm to 7100rpm is less then 1 second.
On the dyno on a sweep that is less then 1.5 seconds long has never showed me more then 70% accuracy in repeatability. For me I won't try and design a pipe with 70% accuracy.
I have one negative to say.
Back in 07-08? Jason Grahm brought me a Etech 860 sled motor to assemble and tune and I refused to install the Cyl with the way it was ported.
He ended up paying me to port replate and build the sled after a few weeks of consulting with others. Don't know who all he was consulting with. I will add I am not a big skidoo fan and there not on my priority list to build I turn away 95% of them. I did a couple big Yamaha for Jason so I agreed to do his skidoo because of the quality of customer he proven to be.
 
erik mx45

erik mx45

Location
outer banks
zimmy said:
Come on Kahuna, when does a thread involving MB or dyno numbers ever stay on track, they are doomed from the moment they are started...

As for erik mx45, if you don't have all the details on how ET has built his product it is best that you try not to bring light to the situation. Scottie and Glen aren't lying, its just the ET fan boys and MB who want to come to his rescue, all with an agenda.

ET products are inferior to TPE products in all ways. Whatever dyno numbers ET posts, just know that the TPE will stomp it. TPE is more power per dollar spent than any motor out there, the design is the best the industry has seen, period.
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zimmy i was not trying to make light of the situation at all i was responding to the fact that mb knows art or that he sent his motor to art period .not true! i know of a situation but thats all ,nor do i care too find out about it, not my problem ! but i thought this was about dyno readings? their are many diff motors but all i here is TPE/ET BASHING WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHATS THE DIFF BETWEEN THEM ?AND WY !LIKE WHAT PIPE MAKES POWER BETTER AND WERE AS TO MAKE A PROPER PURCHASE EX- mybe tnt is better for my setup or mybe its pfp or rrp i have no idea except what people say but frankly who should i trust a tpe guy/dasa guy/php guy or et guy? i have zero agenda just to have my setup be best it can !
 
tntsuperjet

tntsuperjet

Tntperformance-engineering.com
Location
Georgetown ca
Jet, dummy isn't part of TPE, there for what some strong verbally minded individuals have to say shouldn't sway you from any products unless it's the company owner himself making biased comments like that.
For me it's very difficult to work with most other engine builders as its a conflict of interest as we to are engine builders. So I have to walk a fine line between building things for others as well as for us.
So we have settled on building pipes for general public and our own motors have our own spec pipe. This way we keep the engine side and pipe side completely seperate.
 
WB1994

WB1994

Location
Amherst NH
erik mx45 said:
zimmy i was not trying to make light of the situation at all i was responding to the fact that mb knows art or that he sent his motor to art period .not true! i know of a situation but thats all ,nor do i care too find out about it, not my problem ! but i thought this was about dyno readings? their are many diff motors but all i here is TPE/ET BASHING WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHATS THE DIFF BETWEEN THEM ?AND WY !LIKE WHAT PIPE MAKES POWER BETTER AND WERE AS TO MAKE A PROPER PURCHASE EX- mybe tnt is better for my setup or mybe its pfp or rrp i have no idea except what people say but frankly who should i trust a tpe guy/dasa guy/php guy or et guy? i have zero agenda just to have my setup be best it can !
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I havent lied first of all. But to try and stay on topic all of the parts you listed above in any combination with a capable hull will perform incredibly in capable hands. If you have problems flipping with any of those combos then practice more. Biggest concern with the above setups is tuning. Show me one pipe that gives you that " night and day" feeling and i will give you a ride on a ski with a different pipe that will make you second guess your results. Tuning tuning tuning.

And there are a few reasons why the TPE was made in cast not billet.
 
scottie mac

scottie mac

X-
JetFelcher said:
^That right there is what stops me from buying TPE product!
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Well good for you, skippy.

Let me put it to you from a different angle..... If you ever get off your a$$ and spend tens of thousands of dollars designing a truly outside the box part (cylinder or whatever) and bring to the public, only to have some jackwad copy it down to the bore, stoke and port timing....... After saying they wouldn't..... I HOPE you have friends and associates who think enough about you, and right and wrong, to bring it to the public to hear. But hey, it's no money out of your pocket, right?

Want to know why there aren't many new products coming out for pwc enthusiast? It's because of $hit like this. Why spend all the money to do it when someone will copy it and just enough hanger's on will defend him for doing it.

SM
 
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